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Please help me troubleshoot

6872xtc said:
Ok, good to know that you have driven an old leaf-sprung truck before and not just late model IFS.

Part of my logic is that many OEM vehicles came from the factory with a variation of the crossover steering and people were good with driving them.
So there has to be something or multiple things adding up to what you are experiencing.
Just gotta figure it out. Trying to help without being hands-on can be a challenge sometimes, obviously.
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Yeah, agreed an I appreciate all your help from afar. My brother was down from upstate NY this week and he's also had a few square bodies and CJs and he agreed something is really wrong. It was nice to at least know I'm not crazy. I drove a 1990 K5 exclusively, for about 5 years. I miss that truck!
 
I also am not 100% sure what brand leaf spring lift it is. The previous owner thought they were ORD, but I don't think they are ORD custom springs. He may just have meant they were purchased through ORD.
 
Torque all your bushing bolts to 50 ft pounds.
The shackles need to seat on the metal bushing insert
 
After lifting my k5 and switching to crossover and no stabilizer. I had considerable body roll. Used original springs with 4” SF in rear. 4” Ez rides in front. The EZ rides weren’t bad, but the rear original springs allowed me to rock the back with two fingers on the bumper.
I could drive it, it was ok on concrete flat highway at 70, but was terrible on 2 lanes asphalt secondary roads with bumps, dips, and turns. After upgrading springs, it made a world of difference. Not saying you need ORD springs, ( but they are really nice and you wouldn’t be sorry), just saying you need firm springs that don’t allow as much body roll.

After a lot of thought and analysis while driving, I realized I couldn’t keep the steering wheel still ( as in I was causing the problem) while I was bopping left to right in the seat on every little bump hump, especially when those bumps humps are in a turn. Spring upgrade followed, huge improvement in drivability. Next best upgrade was eliminating the rag joint steering shaft. I do see you replaced the steering shaft.
 
JT88K5 said:
After lifting my k5 and switching to crossover and no stabilizer. I had considerable body roll. Used original springs with 4” SF in rear. 4” Ez rides in front. The EZ rides weren’t bad, but the rear original springs allowed me to rock the back with two fingers on the bumper.
I could drive it, it was ok on concrete flat highway at 70, but was terrible on 2 lanes asphalt secondary roads with bumps, dips, and turns. After upgrading springs, it made a world of difference. Not saying you need ORD springs, ( but they are really nice and you wouldn’t be sorry), just saying you need firm springs that don’t allow as much body roll.

After a lot of thought and analysis while driving, I realized I couldn’t keep the steering wheel still ( as in I was causing the problem) while I was bopping left to right in the seat on every little bump hump, especially when those bumps humps are in a turn. Spring upgrade followed, huge improvement in drivability. Next best upgrade was eliminating the rag joint steering shaft. I do see you replaced the steering shaft.
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Thank you! That is good info. I've been on business travel this week and then go out of town for another week, as soon as I get back, so haven't been able to make any headway. I did spend some time speaking with another member on here who's in the area and he also gave me some good places to start. I got a printout of the alignment, which I have attached. I have to admit I'm a little suspect of it because after replacing the entire steering system, I aligned it with a tape measure, and according to the "before" on the report, I am super skilled... If the report is accurate, everything looks pretty good. I just need to decide where to start and first thing will be swapping the tired from rear to front (rears are evenly worn, whereas the fronts are pretty unevenly worn). When I have them off, I'm also going to test the knuckle turning force, as well as take a good luck at the shackle hangers and bushings.
 

Attachments

  • Alignment.pdf
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The only real adjustment they did was the Toe. Not sure how the camber changed, I know they didn't replace the upper ball joint bushings, with offset bushings.

Fyi I adjust mine with a tape measure too :waytogo:
 
I believe the way you add camber to a 10 bolt, is jump the truck.... And take camber out by jacking it up under the center of the front axle real fast...:thinking:






:haha:
Seriously, I've always wondered how they get out of whack. But I know they can :dunno:
 
Madbomber88 said:
Thank you! That is good info. I've been on business travel this week and then go out of town for another week, as soon as I get back, so haven't been able to make any headway. I did spend some time speaking with another member on here who's in the area and he also gave me some good places to start. I got a printout of the alignment, which I have attached. I have to admit I'm a little suspect of it because after replacing the entire steering system, I aligned it with a tape measure, and according to the "before" on the report, I am super skilled... If the report is accurate, everything looks pretty good. I just need to decide where to start and first thing will be swapping the tired from rear to front (rears are evenly worn, whereas the fronts are pretty unevenly worn). When I have them off, I'm also going to test the knuckle turning force, as well as take a good luck at the shackle hangers and bushings.
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Based on the file, it's clear they didn't adjust your alignment at all. We know they didn't adjust rear camber, caster or toe because that's impossible. They also didn't adjust camber or caster up front and while they could have adjusted toe, the differences from before and after are just noise in the system. This could be their system, it could be loose components on your vehicle. Your camber is above average, but that tends to make it return to center more, so it's probably not a big factor.

You state crossover steering and a swaybar. Which is it?

Nobody can troubleshoot this over the internet without more information, given that there are so many variables. If you really want help, upload a video of all the front end components while someone is turning the steering wheel side to side at a standstill. Normally the problem is loose shackle bushings, worn tie rod ends, ball joints or wheel bearings, or a loose steering box. Spend time putting a prybar on all of the parts up front to see what can move. A simple problem like a broken center pin can make a vehicle very difficult to drive, while everything looks fine externally. Also, frozen front axle U-joints can make a truck dart side to side like a psycho without looking weird at all.
 
Blue85 said:
Based on the file, it's clear they didn't adjust your alignment at all. We know they didn't adjust rear camber, caster or toe because that's impossible. They also didn't adjust camber or caster up front and while they could have adjusted toe, the differences from before and after are just noise in the system. This could be their system, it could be loose components on your vehicle. Your camber is above average, but that tends to make it return to center more, so it's probably not a big factor.

You state crossover steering and a swaybar. Which is it?

Nobody can troubleshoot this over the internet without more information, given that there are so many variables. If you really want help, upload a video of all the front end components while someone is turning the steering wheel side to side at a standstill. Normally the problem is loose shackle bushings, worn tie rod ends, ball joints or wheel bearings, or a loose steering box. Spend time putting a prybar on all of the parts up front to see what can move. A simple problem like a broken center pin can make a vehicle very difficult to drive, while everything looks fine externally. Also, frozen front axle U-joints can make a truck dart side to side like a psycho without looking weird at all.
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I agree on the alignment report. As for your question about the crossover steering and swaybar. The truck had a swaybar, but when I converted to crossover steering, I removed it and have not put it back on yet. Everything you mentioned has been replaced, except for the shackle bushings. By center pins, you're talking about the leaf spring pins, right? They are all good and snug. The U-joints are in excellent shape.
 
Madbomber88 said:
I just had it in for an alignment and although they were not able to get the steering wheel aligned straight

I don't see any slop in the steering components when someone steers left and right when I am underneath looking at everything
There is a lot of body roll when you are parked and steer left and right, if that means anything. It looks like the front spring shackles are twisting quite a bit.
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The body roll may be contributing to roll steer. Which pitman arm are you using and what kind of angle is your drag link at? Are the drag link ends threaded all the way in, or do they have a lot of thread showing? Typically everything in the steering shaft/colum/box is keyed. You center the steering wheel by changing the length of the drag link.

If the front shackles are moving, that means the whole axle walks side to side, counteracting your steering input. You need to be sure all of the spring and shackle bolts are tight. They do not need to be loose to let the springs move. The bolts must pull the shackles tight into the sleeve or you'll wear the holes into ovals and it will walk all over the road.
Madbomber88 said:
I should also mention that it turns to the right much quicker than it turns to the left…in case that means anything
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This is probably because the box isn't centered due to incorrect drag link length. The box is tighter on-center.

Madbomber88 said:
I've got to figure this out as it's driving me nuts. I see lots of twist/movement in the rear front spring shackles (these are ORD heavy duty shackle hangers from the previous owner) when the truck is parked, running, and you steer left to right. I would imagine when the wheels are rotating, that is diminished greatly. Best way to explain the steering at speed is like steering a boat.
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Again, you've got to get rid of that movement. Bushings are worn (the shackle upper bushing is famous for this and you didn't list it as a replaced item), bolts aren't tight or something. If you have enough shackle length, cross-tied shackles help with this issue.

I also drive ORD front springs with no swaybar and have lots of body roll and very imprecise steering. It's not loose and doesn't wander or dart, but curvy roads are difficult. As the body rolls, the distance between the steering box and the PS knuckle changes and this is the same thing as steering input, so it takes seat time to learn/predict these characteristics.

It also appears that nobody has brought up tire pressure yet?
 
I removed the front sway bar on my Blazer years ago. The most noticeable change in handling was of course, body roll. However the second thing I noticed, was that when the front runs over bump in the road with one front tire, the front moves pretty normal, but then the rear runs over the same bump, hump in the road, it transfers more twist into the vehicle than I was used too. Instead of the front twisting the body due to the stiffness of the sway bar, the front is more compliant, and then the rear causes most of the body roll. Its kind of like a secondary bump/twist, when in my head, I should be clear of the rough spot. Very disconcerting, but you do get used to it. LOL
 
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