Bubba Ray Boudreaux
1 ton status
None. And you're point would be........?
CK5
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REALLY STRONG ½TON REAR END?
- Thread starter CHEVY 4WD
- Start date
zcarczar
1/2 ton status
My dad is runnin a 12 behind a healthy big block in his hot rod, he is hard on the thing and has never broken anything in the many years he has had it.
that's good, I myself was not as fortunate, I screwed with 12 bolts too many times, I consider the wheeling I do rather light duty running with rather small tire(36"), you had said 12 bolts can hang with the 1 ton crowd, maybe the one axle you run (is by coinsidence) a bit stronger than average, my advice would be to run the 14bsf if wanting to maintain 6 lug otherwise go with the 14bff in no way is the 12 bolt close to the wheeling capabilitys of a 14bff or 14bsf, while a twelve bolt might be sufficiant for the wheeling you do, it's not for me and most others, so without knowledge of what the rig is going to be doing niether you nor myself or anyone could suggest the best axle for this rig, but to be on the safe side the best advise would be the 14bsf if funds are availible to do so
Bubba Ray Boudreaux
1 ton status
Good points, but some of us don't plan on going over 35". Furthermore, I know of 10 bolts that have survived over hard stuff.
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so without knowledge of what the rig is going to be doing niether you nor myself or anyone could suggest the best axle for this rig, but to be on the safe side the best advise would be the 14bsf if funds are availible to do so
[/ QUOTE ]
And that's why someone should step back and find out what kind of wheeling the person inquiring is going to be doing. I for one don't do a whole lot of wheeling so my 12 bolt is just happy where it's at until I step up to a 9" or a full float kit. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
so without knowledge of what the rig is going to be doing niether you nor myself or anyone could suggest the best axle for this rig, but to be on the safe side the best advise would be the 14bsf if funds are availible to do so
[/ QUOTE ]
And that's why someone should step back and find out what kind of wheeling the person inquiring is going to be doing. I for one don't do a whole lot of wheeling so my 12 bolt is just happy where it's at until I step up to a 9" or a full float kit. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
Z3PR
Banned
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
well as bubbaray has stated f*ck the 1ton's. that is my truck in that pic. i run 39.5 ground hawgs 12b rear warn ff kit 5:13 gears and a detroit. the front is a d44 with warn axles arb and 5:13's.... i wheel the sh!t out of that thing and i am talking rock lotsa rocks. i love my 1/2 ton axles i do not baby my truck ask anyone from norcal. i drive it like i stole it. it all adds up to the $$$$$$$$$$. i have yet to break anything on my axles. as far as 1/2 sucking you can go fly a kite as far as i am concerned!!!!!!!!
[/ QUOTE ] Just out of curiosity, how much would it cost to build 1/2 ton axles like you have ??? I'm talking about starting from scratch. If I was to go out and buy all the parts I'd need. How much would it cost me ??? I'm mostly intrested in beefing up the 3/4 ton Dana 44 I have for my front axle. But I'd also like to know the cost of building up a 12 bolt.
well as bubbaray has stated f*ck the 1ton's. that is my truck in that pic. i run 39.5 ground hawgs 12b rear warn ff kit 5:13 gears and a detroit. the front is a d44 with warn axles arb and 5:13's.... i wheel the sh!t out of that thing and i am talking rock lotsa rocks. i love my 1/2 ton axles i do not baby my truck ask anyone from norcal. i drive it like i stole it. it all adds up to the $$$$$$$$$$. i have yet to break anything on my axles. as far as 1/2 sucking you can go fly a kite as far as i am concerned!!!!!!!!
[/ QUOTE ] Just out of curiosity, how much would it cost to build 1/2 ton axles like you have ??? I'm talking about starting from scratch. If I was to go out and buy all the parts I'd need. How much would it cost me ??? I'm mostly intrested in beefing up the 3/4 ton Dana 44 I have for my front axle. But I'd also like to know the cost of building up a 12 bolt.
CRAWLIN70
1/2 ton status
on this point to much yes i spent more then you can imagine. i built these axles 3 years ago before everyone was going 14b and d60's. even mr watson was running 1/2's back then i bought everything from him except for the gears and lockers. but would i change now he!! no. why? dont change what works. like i said i have yet to break them. and i drive it hard have a built small block and a 2000rpm stall. it is all preference but dont go saying 1/2 ton wont hold up they will if they are done right. i am also running the mo-offroad rear truss with his diff cover and traction bar. and a rockrod on the front with a mo-offroad diffcover. i am happy with mine and i can move them with out a crane /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif.. to your point i have in the range of probly some where neer 4000 to 4500 in them both but you winn be atleast that much if not more building a 14b and d60 the same way. i am pulling these axles and they are going in my new rig witch will be coil sprung front and rear. so we will see how they do in that. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
thebigdaddyof2
1/2 ton status
I will state it again.
Really strong 1/2 ton rear ends don't exist.
If you must stay 6 lug, find a 14bolt semi-floater.
This axle has a larger carrier and larger axle shafts.
IMO, 10bolt and 12bolt axles should never have been offered as rear axles. They are pathetically weak and tragically unsafe.
IMO, the Semi-Floating rear axle design is dangerous. I am not very comfortable knowing if an axle shaft breaks on the trail, much less on the highway, my wheel will fall off...completely destroying the quarter panel and possibly causing an accident. Given the weight of our fullsize vehicles, they just do not hold up to even mild abuse.
GM was aware of this and first tried upgrading the size of the pinion shaft in the 10 bolt vs the 12 bolt. 12 bolts commonly broke the pinions. Check the specs.
GM then tried to "beef" the 10bolt by going to 30spline axle shafts in 1989. The first pic shows the the 2 diff carriers. As you can see, they didn't change the carrier- other than boring the axle shaft hole larger to accept the larger shaft. This moved the failure prone item from the axle shaft to the carrier...as shown in the second pic. When the carrier fails, it destroys the ring and the pinion gears. This example was from a 1990 30sp 10bolt rear axle running 33" tires that saw muddy fields for offroad experiences. I swapped the entire setup out for a (slightly) more predictable 28 sp for the CK5 member.
Put a full case locker in it, FF it, do whatever you want...but, put an oversize tire on it and stress it only mildly and it will fail. Pinions will break. Ring gears will spit teeth. Open carriers will spit spider gears and of course, axle shafts will break.
Save your time, money & trouble and go with the 14BSF if you must stay 6 lug. If you can go 8 lug, go for the 14BFF. The 14BFF is extremely affordable, extremely easy to work on, extremely safe and extremely strong. You will even get a much superior braking system.
For me, this is a dead issue. You can argue all day long about how to build a 10/12 bolts but the fact remains: they all suck.
NOTE: I typed this information only to back up my opinion. EVERYONE has a story, anecdote, or opinion on the 10/12 bolts. Good luck to you whatever you use.
Really strong 1/2 ton rear ends don't exist.
If you must stay 6 lug, find a 14bolt semi-floater.
This axle has a larger carrier and larger axle shafts.
IMO, 10bolt and 12bolt axles should never have been offered as rear axles. They are pathetically weak and tragically unsafe.
IMO, the Semi-Floating rear axle design is dangerous. I am not very comfortable knowing if an axle shaft breaks on the trail, much less on the highway, my wheel will fall off...completely destroying the quarter panel and possibly causing an accident. Given the weight of our fullsize vehicles, they just do not hold up to even mild abuse.
GM was aware of this and first tried upgrading the size of the pinion shaft in the 10 bolt vs the 12 bolt. 12 bolts commonly broke the pinions. Check the specs.
GM then tried to "beef" the 10bolt by going to 30spline axle shafts in 1989. The first pic shows the the 2 diff carriers. As you can see, they didn't change the carrier- other than boring the axle shaft hole larger to accept the larger shaft. This moved the failure prone item from the axle shaft to the carrier...as shown in the second pic. When the carrier fails, it destroys the ring and the pinion gears. This example was from a 1990 30sp 10bolt rear axle running 33" tires that saw muddy fields for offroad experiences. I swapped the entire setup out for a (slightly) more predictable 28 sp for the CK5 member.
Put a full case locker in it, FF it, do whatever you want...but, put an oversize tire on it and stress it only mildly and it will fail. Pinions will break. Ring gears will spit teeth. Open carriers will spit spider gears and of course, axle shafts will break.
Save your time, money & trouble and go with the 14BSF if you must stay 6 lug. If you can go 8 lug, go for the 14BFF. The 14BFF is extremely affordable, extremely easy to work on, extremely safe and extremely strong. You will even get a much superior braking system.
For me, this is a dead issue. You can argue all day long about how to build a 10/12 bolts but the fact remains: they all suck.
NOTE: I typed this information only to back up my opinion. EVERYONE has a story, anecdote, or opinion on the 10/12 bolts. Good luck to you whatever you use.
Z3PR
Banned
I'm really intrested in beefing up my 3/4 ton Dana 44. Not counting cost of gears or a locker, how much can I expect to spend on making it stand up to abuce ??? I'm not into rock crawling, I'm into exploring in a mountinous forest, but will also be useing on road-trips, so it'll see interstate speeds. I will be going with 37" tires at first, but plans for the future include 39.5" tires or larger. If I can beef up the 44 cheaper then buying a 60, I'll defently do so.
ZonkRat
1/2 ton status
I checked prices for 2yrs and the cheap way to make it dependable was D60.You can beef up the axles on 44 and it smakes diff the weak spot.Like earlier post with 4--4500 in 12B & 44.Its cheaper to go 1 Ton and be able to get stock parts for it.I've got 1600$ in HiPin D60 front and 1 ton rear. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
Z3PR
Banned
Probley will have to break down and get a 60 when I can aford it. I've already got a 14 Bolt FF (3/4 ton version, but it'll have to do.) and I'll just regear witchever axle has the less desirable gears to match the one with the more desirable gears.
Blazinaire
1/2 ton status
not addressing you in particular Z3PR, but why do so many people feel the need to put a d60 in the front /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif? I am not talking about the people who actually put thier junk to use, but more the people who are currently 3/4 ton (or half) and not having any problems with thier current axles. Are you finding yourself stranded with a busted axle on a regular basis (or at all?) if no, why drop the $$$ for something that you don't truly need? This bothers me sooo much because in my area there are NO 60's to be had, not even in the $2k+ range /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif. All of the 60's that were available are now resting (and I mean taking a permanent vacation) under the front ends of mall cruisers around here /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif and the wheelers that would actually put them to use are stuck with 10bolts changing stub shafts or carriers every weekend while running 33''s /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif (how's it going Ducttape /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/truck.gif) It is not a big deal to have to change the occasional front axle shaft on your 44 or 10bolt if it isn't too common of an occurance. It is when you are breaking axles on most every outing that I would say it is definately time for a 60. I am a strong supporter of 1/2 ton junk myself, but I also find myself recommending 14ff's to people in need of new rear ends simply because of the $$$ vs. beefing up thier busted 1/2 ton axles (that they have already destroyed) but when it is a simple break like an axle shaft the fix is about $100 and that is still much cheaper (and easier) than swapping to a 14. just my $.02 /forums/images/graemlins/usaflag.gif BTW chromo d44 shafts can be had for just over $300 from randy's r&p and they are garaunteed not to break /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif.
Bubba Ray Boudreaux
1 ton status
Apples and oranges, apples and oranges. It appears that you have not been as in depth in your research as I have mind, plus it appears you are somewhat close-minded even when proof is offered upon the masses.
Bubba Ray Boudreaux
1 ton status
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I'm not into rock crawling, I'm into exploring in a mountinous forest, but will also be useing on road-trips, so it'll see interstate speeds. I will be going with 37" tires at first, but plans for the future include 39.5" tires or larger.
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Why? Seems like your trying to get stupid with the overkill. Do you actually think you will find places that will need a 39" tire? Overkill is great, but seems like you are going overboard and sacrificing on-roadibility for it.
I'm not into rock crawling, I'm into exploring in a mountinous forest, but will also be useing on road-trips, so it'll see interstate speeds. I will be going with 37" tires at first, but plans for the future include 39.5" tires or larger.
[/ QUOTE ]
Why? Seems like your trying to get stupid with the overkill. Do you actually think you will find places that will need a 39" tire? Overkill is great, but seems like you are going overboard and sacrificing on-roadibility for it.
Z3PR
Banned
Why 39.5's ??? 2 resons really. (1) You never know what you'll come acrost up in the Black Hills National forest. (I'm not into rock crawling, but there are quite a few rocks to deal with in the forest)
(Not the best pic) lots of ruts, downed small trees, ...ect. (2) I like the way K5's look on the larger tires.
Sample
1/2 ton status
ChryCo 9.25" out of late model Dodge Ram 1500.
Z3PR
Banned
For myself, it's kind of a piece of mind thing. I'd really hate to get stranded out in the middle of the forest with a busted Dana 44. I tend to get as far from any roads as I possibley can in search of remote camping sites. I really enjoy finding places that haven't been touched by man and spending a weekend getting back to nature.
Emmettology 101
3/4 ton status
I agree with you all the way on this Bubbaray! I have only have one breakage with my 12 bolt rock crawling. I blew the spiders out the cover. HOwever I put in a new set and welded them and have had no problems since!!!! Even after welding the spiders I am not easy on the axle. The weekend after I welded them I went on a trailride. I was trying to climb a water covered rockwall and had 'er floored after getting tired of trying. The Jimmy was bouncing off the gorund and I ended up standin it up on the sparetire carrier! But no 12 bolt breakage! Actually, no breakage at all!
CRAWLIN70
1/2 ton status
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I will state it again.
Really strong 1/2 ton rear ends don't exist
[/ QUOTE ]
pull your head out and listin as i have stated 3 times MY 1/2 12 BOLT F/F REAR END IS BUILT AS I SAID RUNNING 39.5" TIRES AND I HAVE NOT BROKE A THING. just cause you have had bad luck dont say they wont hold up! mine is proof maybe you did not know what you were doing when you did yours. maybe you need to go back to the book.
I will state it again.
Really strong 1/2 ton rear ends don't exist
[/ QUOTE ]
pull your head out and listin as i have stated 3 times MY 1/2 12 BOLT F/F REAR END IS BUILT AS I SAID RUNNING 39.5" TIRES AND I HAVE NOT BROKE A THING. just cause you have had bad luck dont say they wont hold up! mine is proof maybe you did not know what you were doing when you did yours. maybe you need to go back to the book.
