Ryoken's 89 Crew Cab Tubebed build... aka Mutt....

[ryoken]

oh.. it appears that to run that cam you not only have to run a thrust button AND wear plate, so yeah, the Milodin would be nice, but the valve springs and seals require machining on the heads... so, being a DD, that means I need to have extra heads, ready and waiting to accommodate the larger valve springs... would definitely lend itself to getting new heads at that point...

the thing that does suck for me is my selection of good head cores, in gen IV, V and VI at the marina are poor, as many see raw water life...

wow, the cheapest aftermarket iron heads I'm seeing are in the $1500, 1600 range a pair...

I can see right now the best thing to do is just get a Gen VI marine roller 502 long block... need to see what that'd cost me......

 

[54inches]

You can find a dynamat alternative at the hardware store. The good stuff is called Sill Seal and is used for sealing the bottom sill plate in home building.

 

[76zimmer]

I know people have said you can roller cam an engine for $500, but really by the time you get it together RIGHT...your at 12-1500...I will be considering that route myself time comes on BART...still not ruling out a Cummins though.

 

[ryoken]

honestly that's the easiest core for me to come up with, a late 90's gen VI 502 roller motor... now, what the fresh package would cost me, I think it'd be at least 3500, even to me, but i'm gonna get a price from Jasper and see what they say, BEING MY MARINA IS SUCH A VALUED CUSTOMER OF MANY REPOWERS A YEAR! wink, wink dammit!

actually, Jasper's delivering a SB tomorrow...

 

[imiceman44]

I know people have said you can roller cam an engine for $500, but really by the time you get it together RIGHT...your at 12-1500...I will be considering that route myself time comes on BART...still not ruling out a Cummins though.

At these costs, I would definitely go cummins, or any other diesel especially for a tow rig.

 

[Chevy305]

If you can do a 502 for $3500 you'd be stupid not too. Hell for that price I'd swap in a big block.

Btw are there such things as LS based marine engines?

 

[ryoken]

At these costs, I would definitely go cummins, or any other diesel especially for a tow rig.

a Cummins swap would be WAY WAY more... but moreso, that's not really a DD, "in a weekend" kinda project too...

 

[ryoken]

If you can do a 502 for $3500 you'd be stupid not too. Hell for that price I'd swap in a big block.

Btw are there such things as LS based marine engines?

yes, I just worked on an 8.1 (496) a couple weeks ago, and I do see 6.0's here and there.......

 

[folkenheath]

yeah, I knew it was a Mark IV.... so that retro cam should use a cam button as opposed to the retainer plate right?

Yes, the retro cam needs a cam button for sure.

Correct on the cam button, and I would use a thrust washer too.
I've heard a lot of people dimple the steel cover with a hammer to set the endplay on the cam, and have no problems doing so on a street or mild strip engine.

I just dented my factory stamped cover on my BB, it doesn't take much massaging of the cover at all to set endplay.

oh.. it appears that to run that cam you not only have to run a thrust button AND wear plate, so yeah, the Milodin would be nice, but the valve springs and seals require machining on the heads... so, being a DD, that means I need to have extra heads, ready and waiting to accommodate the larger valve springs... would definitely lend itself to getting new heads at that point...

The cam button is a necessity, the wearplate you could probably get away without. There is hardly any force front to back on the cam, only from the distributor gear. I built the 388 for my regal back in '97, and all I did was dent the stamped steel cover and put a cam button in, no wear plate or torrington bearing or anything, and that engine is still going strong, it's like a timex watch, takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin' (it'll probably blow up this weekend now that I said that).

However, if you want something there, some companies sell timing chain sets with a torrington bearing built right into the back of the cam sprocket, no block machining necessary. I got one from my engine machinist, it's made by Avon Gear and called ProGear, you can see it in my engine build, post 26 of my build thread, very nice quality piece, around $125 though. But he says the chain is much higher quality on those and that the cloyes has cheapened out and they stretch pretty quick now, but the progear stays tight for quite a while. Part # PG3110TST The PG3110T may be cheaper, it has a cast gear instead of a billet gear, but still has the bearing...

http://www.progearweb.com/3000/pg3110tst.htm

Also, on the valve springs, I would think you could find a set of valve springs that fit the factory diameter and still had the pressure and height you need to prevent coil bind or valve float or bounce. What is the spring pocket diameter on your heads? You can change springs without removing the heads if you pressurize the cylinder...

honestly that's the easiest core for me to come up with, a late 90's gen VI 502 roller motor... now, what the fresh package would cost me, I think it'd be at least 3500, even to me, but i'm gonna get a price from Jasper and see what they say, BEING MY MARINA IS SUCH A VALUED CUSTOMER OF MANY REPOWERS A YEAR! wink, wink dammit!

actually, Jasper's delivering a SB tomorrow...

Can you get a Mercruiser 502 core with the EFI? That would be sweet.

 

[kgblazerfive]

a Cummins swap would be WAY WAY more... but moreso, that's not really a DD, "in a weekend" kinda project too...

I disagree depending on the route you can easily do a swap for that. You can get whole running trucks for that now. Your just looking for the drive train don't care about the body. If you happen to fall into a five speed version you have the complete swap good to go, or an auto if you want that route.

 

[Chevy305]

yes, I just worked on an 8.1 (496) a couple weeks ago, and I do see 6.0's here and there.......

Really? I gotta look those up

 

[imiceman44]

I disagree depending on the route you can easily do a swap for that. You can get whole running trucks for that now. Your just looking for the drive train don't care about the body. If you happen to fall into a five speed version you have the complete swap good to go, or an auto if you want that route.

That is what I say.
You can even make some money back from the rest of the truck if you sell them or even just scrap them.
David "SixB" just bought not one but 2 for $2600 each, one id 2wd and one is 4wd.

 

[ryoken]

Also, on the valve springs, I would think you could find a set of valve springs that fit the factory diameter and still had the pressure and height you need to prevent coil bind or valve float or bounce. What is the spring pocket diameter on your heads? You can change springs without removing the heads if you pressurize the cylinder...



Can you get a Mercruiser 502 core with the EFI? That would be sweet.

the springs for the cam are larger diameter from comp cams... seems foolish to not run their's "for the cam" and void any cam warranty... not so much a spring/spec issue...


yes, all the Merc 502's are MPFI... getting a long block core is no big deal..... induction? yeah, that's not so easy... as I mentioned earlier, I have one of their big dollar plenums, but the matching intake is $1500...

 

[ryoken]

That is what I say.
You can even make some money back from the rest of the truck if you sell them or even just scrap them.
David "SixB" just bought not one but 2 for $2600 each, one id 2wd and one is 4wd.

I don't buy it for a second.... I looked at Dodges for 6 months... ok, sure maybe a wreck/POS can be had for 2 grand...

but there's a fair bit more involved time and cash-wise than just having the drivetrain.. x-members, exhaust, shafts, fuel, etc... throw in the downtime of a swap like that, your talking a couple months usually...

and I know in the last 20 yrs everyone has gotten exceptionally ghey about dizzles, but I don't care how much power and torque you can get from a 6BT, a gasser BB has a different kind of tire-roasting feel/sound to it... for better or worse, it is a different kind of power and sound... a diesel is not ALWAYS the answer, often, but not always...

I'd love this to be a Cummins rig, but it wouldn't be at any point that I'm still DDing it...

 

[imiceman44]

I am not trying to convince you of putting a Cummins, you are the one who mentionned it from the beginning.
And as for the prices, it's no bull****, I actually rode in them too, the 2wd is really clean and drives very nice, and the 4wd which has much more to offer other than the engine, did have a little bit of body rot.
And the price is not cheap for me, but definitely reasonable for what you get.
Anyway I know how big block guy are, most of my friends here in CA would never want a diesel, but after driving a diesel for years, and now driving a diesel big rig, I wouldn't want anything else.

I don't buy it for a second.... I looked at Dodges for 6 months... ok, sure maybe a wreck/POS can be had for 2 grand...

but there's a fair bit more involved time and cash-wise than just having the drivetrain.. x-members, exhaust, shafts, fuel, etc... throw in the downtime of a swap like that, your talking a couple months usually...

and I know in the last 20 yrs everyone has gotten exceptionally ghey about dizzles, but I don't care how much power and torque you can get from a 6BT, a gasser BB has a different kind of tire-roasting feel/sound to it... for better or worse, it is a different kind of power and sound... a diesel is not ALWAYS the answer, often, but not always...

I'd love this to be a Cummins rig, but it wouldn't be at any point that I'm still DDing it...

 

[TheBeast_88K5]

And, having diesel shed-weights...

 

[ryoken]

I just think you guys are way underestimating what the "incidentals" run on a swap like that... 5 or 6 g's all told would be getting off cheap imo...


and trust me, I've seen and worked on TONS of dizzle's on boats and am a big fan... heck, an hr ago I was doing oil changes on a pair of old school Detroit 6-71's... and in a way, the dizzle power capabilities of todays diesel world owe a TON to the marine industry... lot of the higher hp/tq tech came from the marine biz, thanks to Yanmar, etc...

but yeah, until 30 I had no use for dizzles, it was all about big power gasser hotrod stuff...

 

[TheBeast_88K5]

I really do prefer the roar of a BB, to the whistle/clatter of a turbo diesel.

 

[imiceman44]

I know with you, it would.
With me it wouldn't
I buld for use you build for perfection, I lost that interest during the war, and I doubt I will ver go back.
And by the way I know that marine diesel engines were the big drivers for the tech we got in diesels of today.
My Perkins is actually a marine engine, I am sure in your literature you can find out more than what I have for that engine: T6-354 Perkins.
1967 vintage and the first direct injection engine.
You can mistake it for a gas engine most of the time because of the smooth running.
Can you tell I love this engine.

I just think you guys are way underestimating what the "incidentals" run on a swap like that... 5 or 6 g's all told would be getting off cheap imo...


and trust me, I've seen and worked on TONS of dizzle's on boats and am a big fan... heck, an hr ago I was doing oil changes on a pair of old school Detroit 6-71's... and in a way, the dizzle power capabilities of todays diesel world owe a TON to the marine industry... lot of the higher hp/tq tech came from the marine biz, thanks to Yanmar, etc...

but yeah, until 30 I had no use for dizzles, it was all about big power gasser hotrod stuff...

 

[ryoken]

yeah, obviously this build DEFINITELY lends itself to a 6BT.... dually , fifth wheel, "some" towing duty down the line, at a minimum. It's just the belligerent hotrod gasser guy in me fighting for some attention...