Ryoken's Guide to Rust Treatment and Bodywork 101

[Chief Brody]

holy yit thats expensive... i'd be curious to actually see it sand... what it's throw is, etc... sounds a bit dainty for bodywork...

stroke isn't long enough is it?

Wattage 260 W
No load speed 4 000 - 6 000 rpm
Strokes per minute 8 000 - 12 000 spm
Sanding stroke 4.0 mm (0.16 in.)
Sanding base 80 x 130 mm (3.15 x 5.12 in.)
Weight 1.7 kg (3.7 lbs)

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[JBerno]

stroke isn't long enough is it?

time to move this to the Pig Pen

 

[ryoken]

stroke isn't long enough is it?

Wattage 260 W
No load speed 4 000 - 6 000 rpm
Strokes per minute 8 000 - 12 000 spm
Sanding stroke 4.0 mm (0.16 in.)
Sanding base 80 x 130 mm (3.15 x 5.12 in.)
Weight 1.7 kg (3.7 lbs)

​

yeah, thats ridiculously short.. basically a palm sander that goes in 1 direction... a longboard's stroke is about an inch...

 

[Pookster]

I think I finally caught up on this thread. This is what happens when work and other priorities (or what one thinks is his priorities) take over.

I have to say Ryoken may be the second root of all evil. But All his advice and equipment recommendations are true and correct.

I've upgraded from a 26 gallon compressor to a Devbliss 220v 60 or 80 gallon unit. I think he recommended zinc chromate to me.. on man, 5 years ago. maybe longer. Lol. Mine is more yellow than green however, and I can't even find it locally, had to order it online.

I've now got a Lincoln mig, a synchrowave, a thermal dynamics plasma cutter, clekco clips, rolok wheels, and 4 angle grinders (because Im too lazy to switch heads, so I just keep a cut off, grinder, a cup, and a flap) 7 body hammers, 20 dent pushers, drill press, bench grinder, 20 air tools, ...

Oh did I mention a stud welder?

And about 8 different sanding blocks of assorted shapes and sizes.

I then move onto a mini bead roller, a shrinker stretcher, and a brake.

And yes, this is all Ryoken's fault.



Did I tell you up until about 2 days ago, I did not touch one tool in the garage for 2 years?

<-- being lazy.

Anyways, thats soon to change. I hope.

But back to the original post.....

I think your doing yourself a disservice if your bending the metal back slightly and just trying to blast the metal under. you'll never get it all, I think you'd be better cutting it and welding it back. Cut off past the area a bit, with a cut off wheel, and remove it. Then you can grind the rust away cleanly, use weld through zinc primer (not the same as Ryoken Green!)and weld it back into place (with mig or tig , but it depends on what you have). Grind the weld smooth, RG (look Im giving it an acronym, Ryoken Green) it. Fill it if its low, with a little excess, and then grate it down to approximate. Then use a block sander to block it down to the proper height.

Im not very good, so I cheat with spray paint. The dollar walmart rattle cans are what I use- Just a quick hit from height, and let dry for a min, then block sand again. You'll see if you have high's and lows. If your noticing gaps as you sand (aka, you just block sanded a straight section, and you see a spot of black, its possible that that spot is a low spot. Double check it, and if necessary, either block until the black disappears (removing more filler) or make up a tiny batch of filler, and fill it in that spot.

Ive developed a mild disdain for heavy bondo work. I've also discovered, that I hate (HATE!) the home style sheet metal screw head slide hammer. Spend the 100 bucks, get the stud welder.

And ryoken, for all this evilness, you have to let me come down and watch/help you work so I can learn. I'll bring the beer.

 

[ryoken]

thanks and my apologies...


sometimes it's difficult to gauge how to advise someone.... most just want fast, easy and cheap..... I've been accused in the past of "going overboard", but I like to at least know the absolutely best way to do it, give that option, then we can backpedal from there on cost, labor, etc...

I know what the Cheif wants, just trying to help get him there in the least "painful" way... that's not often easy in bodywork, as he's gotten a crash course in... from techniques and tools, to time and materials...

 

[Chief Brody]

I am actually looking forward to this weekend when I can get on this again. I got an inline sander at HF for $37 and a roll of 80 grit sandpaper...if my compressor will cooperate I might actually get something done. It's not the best brand in the world, but it should work for the few spots that I need it for.
I had to buy a generator last week when the tornados took the power out for 5 days....now I wish I could trade that generator for a good compressor.

 

[Chief Brody]

another question: Does a Rolok leave swirls? I have been thinking about how to strip the paint off the dash...sandblast, sanding or Rolok wheel...the Rolok style wheel I have took the paint off the bed in nothing flat...but the bed is thicker and harder than the dash...I took some paint off near the rear end of the bed...the bed floor looked a little bent until I got to looking at it closer...

It's actually a slight bend in the large channel cross piece that attaches to the frame and goes up and over the gas tank and is the brace for the bed floor at the very end of bed...I don't know what that piece of metal is called...don't know how hard it would be to replace it.

 

[ryoken]

reverse order here...


tho maybe slightly different on a full vert, are you talking about the tailpan? all the way in the back? in yellow here on my sec gen...

if your talking forward of that, not in my pic, it would just be the floor brace... replacement tailpans are available, think they run about a c-note.... beyond super common fail point on any K5...


as to rolocs... ANY rotary tool will swirl cut.... heck, you should see me run the 7" flatpad on my big makita grinder... true art there... anyway, yes, thus why in most bodyshop apps, rotary tools are used more towards the beginning of the process, grinding, maybe some 7" flatpadding as a rough cut on a filler...... but once your in primer, you'll never pick up a rotary tool till it's time to buff paint...

stripping the dash..... as i've mentioned/alluded to before, when you want something sandblasted, it's always advantageous to strip as much as possible by machine, chemical, etc prior... blasting is best left to do a final "cut" to the surface and cleaning out unsandable spots..

so yes, stripping as much prior is advisable.... what you want to be aware of, which come to think of it, i KNOW has never been mentioned in here, even by me, is how different sanders, grinders, grits, technique affect raw steel, in this case sheetmetal, but steel in other ways.. what grits remove what scratches, etc in different situations...

first off... heat... there's a reason why a 1000 lb sandblaster with a firehose works great on a frame, door jambs, structure, it has the curves, uni-body, thickness, etc to maintain shape if heat is created.... hit your roof or hood and you'll have a washboard...

anyway, I'm getting sidetracked here.... the main thing you need to worry about when taking a roloc, or any rotary tool to sheetmetal is creating heat, thinning the sheetmetal and putting grit cuts in the metal that cannot be removed with a DA, sandblasting after... scratches usually aren't a huge deal, usually by the time you get thru primer, they're are filled, if not a bit of glazing putty....

generally when i go to do something like stripping that dash, I'll machine sand it with a DA with some 60 or 80 grit, buzzy palm sander orbital if thats all ya have... rip any thing you can get to down to mostly raw.... then I'll go in with a roloc to lightly strip as much of the tighter, smaller areas as i can get too.. again, with the rotary, depending on grit watch how deep your cutting, just remove the paint... usually a 36 to 50 grit works well... than just a quickie blast over it to get any unmachinable paint left and a nice clean cut to it all....

 

[ryoken]

I am actually looking forward to this weekend when I can get on this again. I got an inline sander at HF for $37 and a roll of 80 grit sandpaper...if my compressor will cooperate I might actually get something done. It's not the best brand in the world, but it should work for the few spots that I need it for.
I had to buy a generator last week when the tornados took the power out for 5 days....now I wish I could trade that generator for a good compressor.

eesh... I feel like such an arse when i don't cover something... I've mentioned it in some other compressor threads and such..... but....... be prepared to be dissappointed......

longboards are, without a doubt, the absolutely biggest air hogs.. They will challenge any compressor... all I can tell you is, keep that tool VERY well oiled..

the tool itself is another topic I've never discussed in here.... body tools don't get much attention around here..... generally with longboard there is the average, mediocre, single piston sometime, cheaper sanders.... then you have the real high end stuff, all dual piston, etc.. Hutchins, few other brands...


Hutchins being the most well known.. i have a Hutchins, an IR and a couple cheapies... the cheapies do ok, but aren't as efficient, thus needing more air than the higher end units.... they also like to lock up a bit, thus my advise about keeping it well oiled...

you'll be doing a fair amount of waiting on the comp I'm guessing...

 

[ryoken]

oh.. and always remember, it's best to do ANY sanding in a cross-hatch, ESPECIALLY an inline sander..


I absolutely freaking love running that machine, sounds like a machine gun....

 

[Chief Brody]

it's best to do ANY sanding in a cross-hatch

ummm...what's cross-hatch?

 

[ryoken]

sorry, thought i covered that..... thats working the sander in a 45 degree angle to it's length in 2 different directions...

here.... I'll go make you a paint masterpiece to illustrate...

 

[Chief Brody]

This is the piece I am talking about:

 

[ryoken]

that's the tailpan... it's probably rotting the floor out there... not a horrible install.. couple body mounts... iirc, 4 bolts to the c-pillar and a couple fillet welds at the bottom of the c-post.. it's actually one of the more quality aftermarket pieces...


here's your pic.. red is the sander.... should always be parallel to body lines... and run in the angled pattern of the green, then blue.... it's the way to make things true and flat.... same approach on top of the rail...

 

[Chief Brody]

that's the tailpan... it's probably rotting floor out there... not a horrible install.. couple body mounts... iirc, 4 bolts to the c-pillar and a couple fillet welds at the bottom of the c-post.. it's actually one of the more quality aftermarket pieces...


here's your pic.. red is the sander.... should always be parallel to body lines... and run in the angled pattern of the green, then blue.... it's the way to make things true and flat.... same approach on top of the rail...

The tailpan isn't rusty, it's slightly creased left of center as if somebody backed into something, which is causing the laft side to be slightly bent down leaving about 1/4 inch gap on the left end...can't even tell it with the tailgate shut, actually have to be looking at it to notice with the tailgate open...can't decide if that's one I want to tackle or just leave it be...what's that black stuff you caulk bed parts with called?

Being parallel to body lines...which direction is the body line on top of the rail? Would that be placing your X's on the rail looking from back to front, or looking forward from the side like I am standing in front of the rear wheel?

Which one is correct?

 

[Chief Brody]

Now that I look at it, it's the same thing isn't it???

 

[ryoken]

yup... the sander should run length-wise from front to back.. then go at 45 degree angles like you pictured.... you have a little more forgiveness in how you run it up there as it's very narrow and have 2 height control points...

what's that black stuff you caulk bed parts with called?

what pic?

 

[ryoken]

the yellow seam sealer in this?

 

[Chief Brody]

the yellow seam sealer in this?

Yep...yours is yellow

 

[ryoken]

thats fusor 800ez seam sealer... about $12 a tube.. very easy to use, brushes out nice, etc... there are fancier ones out but i really like the 800... does not have a good shelf-life tho.... i always just get a tube or 2 at a time usually when i need it...