CK5
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So I snapped my Crank: Suggestions for a new one.

fyi if this person says to run it........ it must be worth it money.

just my opinion on motor parts from a guy who has built more than 1 motor. 4x4high scott is the best around here.


Trust me...I know that. I have PM.ed him multiple times before about motor ****. :wink1:

Just doing additional research and explore my option. I like to shop around, rather than just jump on the first suggestion. Not trying to start a flaming contest, just sayin. :D
 
So I spoke with Eagle:

The man in charge of warranty claims told me this:
Due to the economy, we have been seeing a rise in cranks breaking. We are assume this is due mostly to people buying cast cranks vs. 4340 to save some money. Due to this, we cannot warranty/stand behind our cast cranks, because we don't know what they are going in.


He used different words and said it in a different way, but thats about the gist of it..:mad:

He said if I had a 4340 crank he would be very concerned. And would be helping me out.

I proceded to ask him, well since I broke one crank already, what kind of gurantee can I have that I don't break a 4340 crank? Do these have a better "quality control"? He then launched into talking about how even though they are MADE IN CHINA, they are strictly monitered. Only use metals that Eagle chooses, and follow their tensile strenghts etc etc.


So, I'm going to price out an Eagle 4340 crank and compare it to others.


Also, that the "shiny" part of the crank was from the engine running with it broke. and thus the broke snout and the rest of the crank "rubbing" together and wore it smooth. Which makes perfect sense, and make me feel kinda dumb. LOL
 
SCAT 4340

http://www.northernautoparts.com/ProductDetail.cfm?ProductId=2533
Scat_forgedsbchevycrank175pxl.jpg

"Complete manufacturing capability right here in the USA, with 2 state of the art American GFM crankshaft milling machines, 25 CNC machining centers, over 15 crankshaft grinders and polishers, a complete production line for rod finishing and much more."
 
and china had huge recall on bad valve steams for tires a few months ago. somthing like 4 million or so.

sure there quality is good. :smokin2:
 
and china had huge recall on bad valve steams for tires a few months ago. somthing like 4 million or so.

sure there quality is good. :smokin2:

LOL.

Yeah, I get to deal with the valve stem **** STILL almost everyother day. (I work in a tire shop)

Kinda leaning towards an Ohio Crank, I cant quite justify/afford spending 1k+ on a crank.
http://www.ohiocrank.com/chevysb_cranks.html
 
I would buy the cast 9000 series Scat crank and MAKE SURE you have the engine professionally balanced this time otherwise it will all happen again. I've used the 9000 series Scat crank many times and have never had a failure yet. I do have my crank grinder magnaflux even a new crank to eliminate any doubt about a bad crank from the start. :deal:

There is no need for an expensive forged crank unless you're going to run a blower or turbo or run it at extended high rpm's. This is not a race car, it's a low rpm truck engine remember.
 
Trust me, balancing is GOING to happen this time.

Most likely all the way down to the pressure plate.... I don't want to do this...again....


I was leaning towards Forged just for the piece of mind, but if you think it would be ok. I'll re-consider it.
 
A forged crank can break just as easily as a cast crank given the right circumstances. A forged crank is a given for a race car or high RPM engine but not a 6000 lb low RPM truck engine.
 
ok so the verdict was a summit balancer at the root of the problem?

What balancer would anyone recomend to be placed on an Eagle cast crank?
 
ok so the verdict was a summit balancer at the root of the problem?

What balancer would anyone recomend to be placed on an Eagle cast crank?

No, the balancer was not the issue.

It was the balancing of the crankshaft itself.

This motor vibrated ever since I built it...but when I did that 2 years ago I didn't care....:doah::doah: Weird how much you can grow up over time...lol


Fluid-dampners are the best if you have the money, I didn't when i bought my new balancer so I went with the summit.
 
No, the balancer was not the issue.

It was the balancing of the crankshaft itself.

This motor vibrated ever since I built it...but when I did that 2 years ago I didn't care....:doah::doah: Weird how much you can grow up over time...lol


Fluid-dampners are the best if you have the money, I didn't when i bought my new balancer so I went with the summit.

Fluid-dampners like to break the snouts off of cranks. The BEST balancer you can buy is a good aftermarket elastometer style balancer that is "enclosed". BHJ products makes a VERY NICE balancer at a decent price. I know the founder of the company (he has since made his millions and sold the company) he also developed and makes many engine related tooling including torque plates, head gasket O-ring grooving tools, cam bearing tools just to name a few.

http://www.bhjdynamics.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1_2_36_37
 
Fluid-dampners like to break the snouts off of cranks.

Really ?

I have used them for years and never had any failures.
I run one on my blown big block ( dual keyed ) now.

The last broken crank snout I saw had an elastometer style balancer..
400 small block....


Just sayin...:D
 
Really ?

I have used them for years and never had any failures.
I run one on my blown big block ( dual keyed ) now.

The last broken crank snout I saw had an elastometer style balancer..
400 small block....


Just sayin...:D

Yes really. Think about it for a minute. The fluidampner is HEAVY first off, secondly it is a fluid filled inertia ring. When the engine is off the fluid is sitting at the bottom of the ring and when the engine is started it IS NOT balanced UNTIL that fluid has disspersed where needed to achieve a balance. The two factors here are how heavy the balancer is and also that the engine is not "balanced" until the fluid is disspersed. These both take a heavy wear on the snout of the crank. I'm not saying that every crank will break because of the use of them but because of design you would NEVER catch me using one. :deal:
 
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Warren Johnson - The driver with the most wins in NHRA Pro Stock History depends on the performance of the Aluminum Big Block Chevy Fluidampr.

Eh,,,,what does the professor know.....

Read on......

[/FONT]

As experts in crankshaft torsional vibration for more than 57 years, we at Vibratech TVD, makers of Fluidampr® Streetdampr® and Heavy Duty Diesel dampers, feel it necessary, to clear up some common misconceptions and set the record straight regarding torsional vibration and the role of a crankshaft damper.
Does a Vibration Damper ("Harmonic Balancer") Really Balance an Engine?
It is a common misconception that, "A damper is supposed to balance an engine". In most automotive circles, the torsional vibration damper is referred to as a "harmonic balancer", a trade name of General Motors given to a leaf-spring friction damper they introduced in 1925. This misnomer may have, today, led to a misunderstanding, where the desire to correct rotating mass imbalance to avoid damaging flexural vibrations, is being confused with the role of a torsional vibration damper. Dampers can be designed to include a counterweight, or in some similar way permit the balancing of an engine, but the damper itself does not balance the rotating assembly, the counterweight does.
Crankshaft vibration dampers are designed to reduce torsional vibration, the small but sometimes dangerous angular oscillations a shaft undergoes, as the alternately ignited cylinders deliver torque spikes to the shaft via the pistons and connecting rods. Crankshaft torsional vibration is inherent in all internal combustion engines and can be especially harmful in high horsepower, high rpm and torque applications, if a properly designed damper is not utilized.
Another common concern is that fluid and mechanical dampers contain moving parts, which are believed to impede proper balancing of the crankshaft assembly. A fluid-type damper, such as Fluidampr®, contains an internal inertia ring that is self-centering, even at idle speed, due to the balance of pressure and shearing forces in the viscous fluid that surrounds the ring. Also, every precisely machined inertia ring that goes into a Fluidampr® is separately high-speed balanced during its manufacture process.
Elastomeric Dampers
In elastomer dampers, the outer inertia ring is fixed relative to the mounting hub through a ring (or rings) of elastomeric material (usually rubber). These units must be balanced after assembly to correct imbalance due to any offsets between the inertia ring and the hub that are created by the imposition of the rubber ring between them (note the large balance holes on many of these dampers). An elastomer damper that is not balanced out of the box is not self-correcting at any speed.
Damper Inertia Rings - Do They Help or Hurt?
Another misconception is the role of inertia rings in vibration dampers and their behavior during rapid engine accelerations and decelerations. The role of inertia rings in elastomer dampers, such as OEM stock dampers, is different from that of inertia rings in fluid dampers.
In an elastomer damper the inertia ring / elastomer system is tuned to vibrate (act as a tuned absorber) out-of-phase with the fundamental (lowest) torsional natural frequency of the engine rotating assembly. The properties of the elastomer allow it to absorb the vibration, converting the mechanical energy into heat energy to achieve damping. The limited capacity of an elastomer damper for dissipating vibrational energy without overheating can result in a very short life, especially in high horsepower race engines running at high speeds. In addition, the main rotating assembly to which the damper must be tuned includes the crankshaft, pistons, rods, flywheel, and any rotating mass that may be directly coupled or geared to the crankshaft. Changing any one of these elements from the stock conditions reduces the effectiveness of the tuned stock damper. Also, an elastomer damper may actually increase the crankshaft's torsional vibration amplitude if it is not tuned to the vibration frequency of the crankshaft, due to alterations made to the system or due to an improperly specified stiffness (durometer) of the elastomer. Under such conditions the inertia ring could oscillate in phase with the crankshaft, increasing the stresses in the shaft.
In a fluid damper, the inertia ring is independent of, though closely surrounded by a hermetically sealed casing, with a thin film of viscous silicone fluid filling the engineered shear gaps between the two. During engine startup the fluid drags the inertia mass up to speed. In the absence of torsional vibration, the inertia ring and casing rotate at the same speed. The effect of any torsional vibration that is present at any given speed is to oscillate the casing as it rotates, while the inertia ring continues to rotate at the average rpm. The resulting relative motion between the two results in shearing of the fluid, where the mechanical energy is again converted to heat energy to achieve damping, as in the case with elastomer dampers. For the same size damper, a fluid damper can dissipate more energy and run cooler than an elastomer damper, without any significant deterioration of performance.
Since the inertia ring of an elastomer damper is directly connected to the main rotating system through the elastomer, the crankshaft will feel additional loading and higher stress as the engine is rapidly accelerated. The additional loading would be directly proportional to the inertia of the ring. The inertia ring of a fluid damper is only "connected" to its casing through the silicone fluid. Because of this, only about one-half of the ring's inertia is felt by the crankshaft, reducing any loading to the crankshaft that might be caused by rapid changes in engine speed.
An elastomer damper works well at the fundamental natural frequency of the main rotating assembly to which it is tuned and for the vibration excitation level for which it was designed to absorb energy. That, coupled with their relatively low cost of manufacture, is why OEM stock dampers are elastomer-type dampers. In diesel engines reconfigured to provide higher horsepower and greater torque, the fundamental natural frequency of the main system may change substantially, and a number of other natural frequencies can be excited in the typically extended engine operating range. Even through rapid accelerations and decelerations these high frequency vibrations can reach damaging amplitudes. Fluid dampers (sometimes called self-tuning dampers) are able to reduce torsional vibration amplitudes at any frequency occurring at any engine speed, something elastomer dampers can't do.
Vibratech TVD, formerly Houdaille, invented the fluid damper in 1946 and has been manufacturing and selling its dampers for Heavy Duty diesel since and high horsepower, high rpm race engines since 1985. Many racers rely on Fluidampr race after race, for longer crankshaft and bearing life.
Many racers have told us "Fluidampr® is the best performance race damper on the market."
That's a great endorsement, but maybe you should decide for yourself… from the facts. To learn more about crankshaft torsional vibration, a good technical paper to read from the Society of Automotive Engineers is "A Practical Treatise on Engine Crankshaft Torsional Vibration Control" by Robert C. Bremer Jr. (SAE Paper SP-445, June 1979).
 
Scott: SBC cranks with a BB snout, what exactly does that do for me?

They are stronger on the snout because of the extra material. It's not needed for what you're doing, and besides they require a special timing cover and balancer.
 
They are stronger on the snout because of the extra material. It's not needed for what you're doing, and besides they require a special timing cover and balancer.


Thats what I figured..

I'm just going to go with a Cast, SCAT crank.

I'm going to have it balanced locally, they're going to charg me 325, plus 75 if it needs "heavy metal". Price sound decent?

Cam keeps snaggin me though, :o I need a new one. But I want it to have a decently noticable idle.


Do you think this is too large? I run about 2k driving down the road, and when It gets played with the tach normally runs around 3-4k ish.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-08-422-8/

OR:
Little more tame, lower RPM range.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-08-408-8/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-08-412-8/
 
BTW, the first cam is nearly identical to my last one, save that it is on a 110 angle verses a 112. This will cause more of a lope at idle correct? and thus narrow the RPM range?
 
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