Man, this thing is going to be killer.
CK5
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The Willomet Charger
- Thread starter AgDieseler
- Start date
A desecration to Mopar nuts everywhere, this is my protouring, LS-powered, 1970 Dodge Charger; built at my shop, Willomet Motor & Fabrication.
The drags aren't my main focus. A Z28 Camaro does 12.3 on street tires, so that's kind of my target. Hoosiers might bring that into the 11s, an ET that I don't think requires a full cage.
This car is supposed to be more of an all arounder; a replacement for my CTS-V that I let go of a couple of years ago. It left a hole in my heart.
David
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At 11.49 they start looking for a cage.
Wasn't sure what you were shooting for. Whatever you're planning on with it, just be sure you build it so it meets sanctioning body requirements. Would suck to decide later you need to rework stuff. Esp w/ the attention to detail you put into things.
Very nice work with some awesome attention to detail you're doing in this thread. The muscle car gods are looking down smiling on the resto you got going on. 
Sweet job, keep it up.
Sweet job, keep it up.
With the B pillar or Halo hoop just like in that pic you can black out those quarter windows with tint and no one would ever see it as long as those windows are up. 
RubberFloorMat
1/2 ton status
Bingo brother.
I've been out of the game for awhile but I would say your plans are definitely on the right track. A front halo and a-pillar down bars are mostly for crash protection and if memory serves only adds a minimal amount of torsional rigidity, more so if a dash cross bar is used.
So maybe I missed it but tubular k-member or no?
I've been out of the game for awhile but I would say your plans are definitely on the right track. A front halo and a-pillar down bars are mostly for crash protection and if memory serves only adds a minimal amount of torsional rigidity, more so if a dash cross bar is used.
So maybe I missed it but tubular k-member or no?
RubberFloorMat
1/2 ton status
That g machine chassis of Alston is exactly what I had in the back of my head, he's been doing high level handling stuff since the mid 90's.
You don't need a NASCAR chassis to make it stiff, plus I really hate to see cages in street cars personally.
Overbuilt is better than underbuilt however. My last car I used double the size and thickness of attachment plates on the 6 pt cage, some really serious subframe connectors that tied together, and it was just perfect for the power level and tire size. Put it this way, only car I've driven that handled better is my friends Lotus series 60
You don't need a NASCAR chassis to make it stiff, plus I really hate to see cages in street cars personally.
Overbuilt is better than underbuilt however. My last car I used double the size and thickness of attachment plates on the 6 pt cage, some really serious subframe connectors that tied together, and it was just perfect for the power level and tire size. Put it this way, only car I've driven that handled better is my friends Lotus series 60
I've done several cages in cars. All of them handling cars. Think time attack type stuff.
I would strive to do a halo of sorts with down bars. 2 ways to do this. One make the cage a feature. Make it the trim. It's hard to do right. Other way is to do the cage so you can fit trim in under and around and then have the cage upholstered or painted to match or even a fancy custom headliner to hide it all.
Neither is easy to do.
Going with these guys and watching the flex it's amazing what a cage will do. And this is on modern cars.
But remember this is on cars on the ragged edge. These were guys in a Ford focus or a old 240sx or even older GTIs kicking ass on some high end factory cars.
I would strive to do a halo of sorts with down bars. 2 ways to do this. One make the cage a feature. Make it the trim. It's hard to do right. Other way is to do the cage so you can fit trim in under and around and then have the cage upholstered or painted to match or even a fancy custom headliner to hide it all.
Neither is easy to do.
Going with these guys and watching the flex it's amazing what a cage will do. And this is on modern cars.
But remember this is on cars on the ragged edge. These were guys in a Ford focus or a old 240sx or even older GTIs kicking ass on some high end factory cars.
A rigid unibody car like a hatch even an older one is crazy stiff compared to a body frame car.. heck my 89 3 series can be jacked up on one corner and the doors still open, Barely but still will work, my VW doesn't even creak.. it's stupid stuff.. that all translates to me.. I like the stiffness so I can see where you go with this..
what about the modulus of strength strictly looking at the chassis beams from a size perspective because a box is more rigid in both directions than a rectangle. 3x3 vs 2x4 for example..
what about the modulus of strength strictly looking at the chassis beams from a size perspective because a box is more rigid in both directions than a rectangle. 3x3 vs 2x4 for example..
Shoot older GTIs always lifted the driver rear tire under hard cornering but it never upset the car. That's a pretty stiff car and a cage helped improve its handling. My buddy picked up almost a full second on a 65 second lap with no other mods. We added weight and picked up time.
They still do the little leg lift, some auto x guys run no front sway bar to allow it to rotate.. crap my tdi was an excellent handling car.. 1 second off my buddies s2k on a small go cart track. Less than min laptimez..
A bit of derail but it does relate. It's a good time to watch a bunch of highly modded hot hatches go out on a track. With several awesome exotics. Then watch those exotics get outbraked and out cornered everywhere.
But it's definitely more fun to see a huge muscle car doing the same thing!
But it's definitely more fun to see a huge muscle car doing the same thing!
I agree! Plus the muscle does the cool when your not driving..
I'm 98% settled on using the Magnum Force transformer K member and front suspension - all boxed construction, loads more rigidity than the factory stamped stuff. It's their pro-touring setup, as their tubular stuff is more geared toward drag racing.
I spent a lot of time talking with the guys at Rad Rides about this suspension compared to Art-Morrison (C6 stuff), RMS (MII stuff), RS (C6 or MII depending on setup), XV (C6), and a tuned up torsion bar setup from Firm Feel. They've used them all, but have had the best long term performance for strip and street cars using the below. That's experience I'm glad to lean on.
Same page. I have my mind right about a b-pillar halo bar, but the front firewall is a great canvas for a reinforced shear plate connected to the larger rocker boxes which is connected to door bars. I'm headed down that path for now in the aim of avoiding an a-pillar halo and down bars. We're going for Z28 and CTS-V levels of performance.
This is my thinking. I'm not hung up on an original interior, and an aesthetically integrated cage is appealing - a la the Singer 911. It just might not be wrapped in Ferrari leather...
Totally agree. I did a quick measurement of the rockers at The Roadster Shop, and they are slightly wider than an iPhone 6 is tall, so ballpark 6" square tubing. The inner rail structure (reference my prior sketch) would use a 2x3 set vertical, and follow the Art-Morrison chassis lines.
We're just a few weeks away from contractors being done, and I'm itching to get back working in the shop.
David
I'm so freaking stoked your taking it this far.. man I can't imagine how good this is gonna drive.. nice and flat.
RubberFloorMat
1/2 ton status
Awesome I was hoping you were going with magnum force.
Btw I've had two GTI's, love those little krautmobiles.
Btw I've had two GTI's, love those little krautmobiles.
Spent the morning refining my quick sketch. Not to scale, but you can see where it's going. Hatched areas are existing "frame" structure.
David
David
Is there no room to cross brace the area towards the lower part of the drawing?
The fuel tank goes in the lowest void, and cross braces are really just floor support. Forward of that will have some bracing related to the suspension links and shock mounts. I'm just not entirely sure what that looks like, yet. The 6 point cage will likely handle most of the "stiffness duties" rearward of the link mounts.
David
