TnA's 86 Jimmy Shop Build / Product Development Thread - (Trailing Arms?!?!)

[CFMi]

Hmmm. Well obviously I know which way I vote which is as high and tight with no winch but I don't know what makes the most sense for you. As far as trimming yours I bet you could find someone fairly local to loan you a back end to abuse to save yours. I would if I was closer.

OMG... ROFL...
I think I might have just found a quote worthy of putting in my signature... "I bet you could find someone fairly local to loan you a back end to abuse to save yours"

Wow, I'm still laughing...


-Darren

edit: I stopped laughing. I pictured you loaning me yours if you were closer.

 

[Smokinthehippies]

OMG... ROFL...
I think I might have just found a quote worthy of putting in my signature... "I bet you could find someone fairly local to loan you a back end to abuse to save yours"

Wow, I'm still laughing...


-Darren

edit: I stopped laughing. I pictured you loaning me yours if you were closer.

Lmao. An **** I didn't even see that. Get your mind outta the gutter. Unless your gonna wheel thru it after you build me a new rear bumper!

 

[CFMi]

Lmao. An **** I didn't even see that. Get your mind outta the gutter. Unless your gonna wheel thru it after you build me a new rear bumper!

Hmmm, now I need to find a truck locally so's I can build the frame brackets. And my mind doesn't ever really leave the gutter, I am just damn good at covering it up most of the time.

-Darren

P.S. - Hope you don't mind the new signature now

 

[stan1688]

I would say do just a receiver hitch on the high-clearance version and a winch option on the bigger version that matches your current front.

Oh, and it'd be pretty cool if you had some sort of protection for the taillights on the high-clearance version, as well.

 

[Smokinthehippies]

Hmmm, now I need to find a truck locally so's I can build the frame brackets. And my mind doesn't ever really leave the gutter, I am just damn good at covering it up most of the time.

-Darren

P.S. - Hope you don't mind the new signature now

I approve of everything you've said above.
And no worries on the last part lol. Now I can be famous.

 

[blazinzuk]

Not much to show for pictures for most of the day today. Cut off the PO's horrific exhaust, removed factory fuel lines from the frame and re-attached the rear brake line all the way along the frame. Went and picked up my new Aeroquip fuel lines today too - they are super nice, but they were way more expensive than I had planned on... Ouch! Then I started getting the engine ready to come out. Should have that out tomorrow.

I came home, fed the animals, and started screwing around on the computer for a while. Ended up coming up with this craziness. Who here knows what this might be?????

-Darren

Little real world feedback on a system like that. I built one oh about 12 years ago, actually I built a couple. Makes the back end wiggly, we messed around with limiting plates, even played around with different materials for the pivot, locking em out for the street etc. They always worked kind of. Biggest problem is they shift the back end over at the least opportune times. In addition to that 2 of them were crash tested, the failure points were the bolts and the steel holding the pivot point. I had used 3/8 wall tube to make them stout and they tore.
my opinion is that those are a gimmick, sure they make ya flexy and ya look cool but they do that way better than they help the truck off road

Several variations of those have popped up over the years, including " orbit eye springs" some like em some don't. But they rarely help as much as you think they might

 

[Kay86K5]

I would say do just a receiver hitch on the high-clearance version and a winch option on the bigger version that matches your current front.

Oh, and it'd be pretty cool if you had some sort of protection for the taillights on the high-clearance version, as well.

x2 on this. I care more about a hitch in the rear than a winch mount, but it would be cool if you could swap out the center section in the future if you wanted. And I care more about high clearance too. If you want to look at my build in my sig, you can see where I cut my rear fenders. I think something that follows that body line (for the majority of the body line, kinda like how ORD's rear tube bumper follows that body line for protection when coming off a rock). I am not that close to you, but if you come down this way I would be more than willing to let you take a look at my cut lines and take some measurements if you want. I don't have a rear bumper on right now, so it would be easy for you to look at everything. Just let me know.

EDIT: Oh, and what stan1688 said about the light protection would be cool. I think if I remember right, the Blazen Offroads bumpers had some sort of tubular protection coming up off the base bumper, and that was also the outside tie-in to the tubular swing down tire carrier too. If you could work something like that with your high clearance design, I would be very interested!!!

 

[Smokinthehippies]

Just wanted to pop in and say in the past few days I've gotten quite a few compliments on the bumper. So you're doing something right. Hope fully the rear is just as good.

And quickly available

 

[CFMi]

Little real world feedback on a system like that. I built one oh about 12 years ago, actually I built a couple. Makes the back end wiggly, we messed around with limiting plates, even played around with different materials for the pivot, locking em out for the street etc. They always worked kind of. Biggest problem is they shift the back end over at the least opportune times. In addition to that 2 of them were crash tested, the failure points were the bolts and the steel holding the pivot point. I had used 3/8 wall tube to make them stout and they tore.
my opinion is that those are a gimmick, sure they make ya flexy and ya look cool but they do that way better than they help the truck off road

Several variations of those have popped up over the years, including " orbit eye springs" some like em some don't. But they rarely help as much as you think they might

Awesome to hear from someone who has actual experience with something like this design. Thank you very much for your post. In all honesty, I just sorta came up with it the other day and drew something up, I had no idea people had been playing around with such similar designs for so many years. I have used Orbit-Eye springs over the years with pretty good success, even on a couple street vehicles with no real issues. I also have made shackle flips with joints where the shackle meets the flip bracket with good success. Never have any of them yielded *unexpected* unloading or anything of the sort, just some expected greater flexibility. I guess I should stick with my tried and true ideas on that front, lol. I'll keep it in mind though, because I think that a really cool setup would be something like this combined with a jointed shackle but with maybe a set of triangulated upper links to the axle that would not only locate the axle side-to-side but also act as an anti-wrap link. I think that could end up being super-flexy, but without huge coilovers sticking up into the passenger compartment. Oh well, I'll play with that idea when I'm rich and have tons of time on my hands, lol....

x2 on this. I care more about a hitch in the rear than a winch mount, but it would be cool if you could swap out the center section in the future if you wanted. And I care more about high clearance too. If you want to look at my build in my sig, you can see where I cut my rear fenders. I think something that follows that body line (for the majority of the body line, kinda like how ORD's rear tube bumper follows that body line for protection when coming off a rock). I am not that close to you, but if you come down this way I would be more than willing to let you take a look at my cut lines and take some measurements if you want. I don't have a rear bumper on right now, so it would be easy for you to look at everything. Just let me know.

EDIT: Oh, and what stan1688 said about the light protection would be cool. I think if I remember right, the Blazen Offroads bumpers had some sort of tubular protection coming up off the base bumper, and that was also the outside tie-in to the tubular swing down tire carrier too. If you could work something like that with your high clearance design, I would be very interested!!!

Cool, more good feedback on the rear bumper. Looks like I'll be starting out looking into a larger center section that could be big enough to accommodate either a winch or a hitch since the gas tank in these trucks hangs down so low anyways we wouldn't be losing any real clearance there. Then the outers could easily have two designs, being a high-clearance and a full bodied design. I think that sounds like a good direction to go down to start.

Just wanted to pop in and say in the past few days I've gotten quite a few compliments on the bumper. So you're doing something right. Hope fully the rear is just as good.

And quickly available

Awesome to hear man! That makes me happy to hear that you've been getting good compliments on it! Definitely makes my day a little better after some disappointing news I got last night.

I had some work to do to the little garage at my house today and tomorrow, but I think I might blow that off and run to the shop at least for today. I've got to get another engine crossmember welded up, and get some things into shipping that I just couldn't quite finish yesterday. After those few things are done, I will have some time to start on the rear bumper design!!

-Darren

 

[Richcz28]

I have seen some Jeeps with storage built into their bumpers. It becomes a good spot to have a strap and some shackles. This is especially true for people who don't want a mud covered strap thrown back in their rig. This is probably getting excessive, but I thought if you are building a center section large enough to house a winch, but only adding a trailer hitch you would have a lot of extra space.

 

[CFMi]

Question:
How many individual pieces do I have to cut, clean and weld for just 1 of the new crossmembers??

Answer: 24 pieces!!!!!!!


-Darren

 

[blazinzuk]

Awesome to hear from someone who has actual experience with something like this design. Thank you very much for your post. In all honesty, I just sorta came up with it the other day and drew something up, I had no idea people had been playing around with such similar designs for so many years. I have used Orbit-Eye springs over the years with pretty good success, even on a couple street vehicles with no real issues. I also have made shackle flips with joints where the shackle meets the flip bracket with good success. Never have any of them yielded *unexpected* unloading or anything of the sort, just some expected greater flexibility. I guess I should stick with my tried and true ideas on that front, lol. I'll keep it in mind though, because I think that a really cool setup would be something like this combined with a jointed shackle but with maybe a set of triangulated upper links to the axle that would not only locate the axle side-to-side but also act as an anti-wrap link. I think that could end up being super-flexy, but without huge coilovers sticking up into the passenger compartment. Oh well, I'll play with that idea when I'm rich and have tons of time on my hands, lol....

Some of it is a function of the terrain we wheel on. We wheel mostly on lava rock. It is more jagged and has more outcroppings and overhangs and underhangs than most anything else I have been on.

I have done the flexy shackle too. They do the same thing but less of it.

It also comes from my realization about 5 or 6 years ago that flex is over rated. Lockers not so much, flex oh yah, way overrated. I still think its a good component of a capable off road rig, but I have seen rigs that were so stiff the suspension barely moved, that were locked front and rear follow me everywhere.

They got more pics of them taken too. Having a tire 5 feet in the air makes for a good pic

Why not link with leaf springs? Shackles on both ends? Seen this done several times. It has some advantages. Of course you still need a shock to go along with it.

Like I said I have come to the conclusion that flex is over rated, not that I still don't try for flex but I have left a whole lot of the super flexy ideas ( revolvers, Heims in shackles, joints on the leaf springs somewhere) to other people. When I do those things I usually not looking for flex I am looking for a way for a shorter spring to live a longer life.

 

[CFMi]

Some of it is a function of the terrain we wheel on. We wheel mostly on lava rock. It is more jagged and has more outcroppings and overhangs and underhangs than most anything else I have been on.

I have done the flexy shackle too. They do the same thing but less of it.

It also comes from my realization about 5 or 6 years ago that flex is over rated. Lockers not so much, flex oh yah, way overrated. I still think its a good component of a capable off road rig, but I have seen rigs that were so stiff the suspension barely moved, that were locked front and rear follow me everywhere.

They got more pics of them taken too. Having a tire 5 feet in the air makes for a good pic

Why not link with leaf springs? Shackles on both ends? Seen this done several times. It has some advantages. Of course you still need a shock to go along with it.

Like I said I have come to the conclusion that flex is over rated, not that I still don't try for flex but I have left a whole lot of the super flexy ideas ( revolvers, Heims in shackles, joints on the leaf springs somewhere) to other people. When I do those things I usually not looking for flex I am looking for a way for a shorter spring to live a longer life.

Wow - It's nice to hear someone with the same (or similar at least) opinion as mine on flex. I have been saying for years now that you can have too much flex, or articulation. Years ago I set out to build a full-size that could keep up with the Jeeps on the rock trails out here. I did it, to a point. I have a 1994 K1500 with a big block on links and coilovers with about 3 feet of wheel travel at each corner. It's really soft and flexes unbelievably. BUT, the only way I can even come close to maxing the suspension articulation is on a fabricated ramp or with a forklift, lol. I've had the thing flexed out crazy on the trails, and then when you go and inspect it, there is always still more travel left. It's just too much. It always gets to the point of rolling over before the suspension is maxed out. ....And the worst part is when it's in a really awkward position, and its so damn soft that if you give it any throttle it just twists the suspension more and wants to roll. I've added soft anti-sway bars to it to help keep it under control, which is basically taming down everything I built into the truck. It's completely pointless.
That being said, there is something else that I've been saying lately, and that is that there is differing "quality" of articulation too. Two vehicles that have the same flex on a ramp, same amount of wheel travel, etc... and one "walks" over rocks and they other twists and jumps over rocks. So far, the best system I've come up with is a reverse-triangulated 4-link in combination with either decently soft coil springs or coilovers. That setup seems to make the tires travel in the best arc, fit up into the wheelwells ideally, and overall just ride the best in terms of passenger comfort. It's a pain in the butt to build as opposed to some other designs, but it definitely works awesome on the trail.
SO.... I'm thinking that a reverse triangulated 4-link with soft leaf springs with shackles or sliders at either end and flex joints might be a sweet setup in terms of performance, and also a compact setup to fit under the full body of an SUV like a K5 or a Suburban. I'm sure I'll experiment with something like that in the future
Oh, and I completely agree with lockers NOT being overrated! They kick ass, and are absolutely required for most of the harder trails out here.
One of the guys from my old wheeling group had a little Toyota pickup, all beat up but with lockers front and rear. Near zero flex at all. We named the truck "Tripod" because he was always on three wheels with one in the air somewhere. It made for some decent pics at first, but nowadays I'd rather snap a shot of someone all flexed out with all tires on the ground than someone just hanging a tire. But you are right, most of the camera-holders like the photos of the stiff rigs more.

-Darren

 

[CFMi]

Productive day...

So today feels like it was pretty productive so far...

Got all this welded together. Well almost all of it. I have about 1.5" of weld left on one crossmember and I'm out of welding wire. I could have sworn that I had another roll sitting here, but it turns out I must have used it already. Damn. And it's Saturday afternoon so I'm out of luck on finding any more today. Oh well, I can finish the last bit on Monday morning without delaying anything important.

Here's the HD Motor Mounts I make too (GM Clamshell style replacements). Damn, I really need to get this stuff up on the website soon!

And then here's a motor mount bolted to the driver's side crossmember piece:

...Now I think I'm gonna draw up a quick upper rear in-board shock mount system, so that if I have any time on Monday I can start the design process for the rear bumper.

-Darren

 

[drew4x4]

i think one of those is meant for my truck.....


looks damn good!!

 

[CFMi]

i think one of those is meant for my truck.....


looks damn good!!

Yep, you saw the one with no holes, huh? That be for you!

-Darren

 

[CFMi]

Here's a super basic crossmember for the rear upper shock mounts. I'll add the shock pin (bolt) to it later when I figure out exactly what angle it needs to be set at. Then I'll let you guys see my kewl lower mounts that place the bolt perpendicular to the axle so it can flex without binding up and wearing out your shock bushings prematurely

-Darren

 

[drew4x4]

i wish you had made these a year ago when i first started ordering parts for my LS swap.... replacing the angle mounts without pre-drilled holes and cross member at the same time is a GREAT idea for any future LS swapper.

hell, just selling some angle mounts with no holes would be a great idea for any engine swap - big block or anything else.


still planning on shipping on monday?




i am def interested in a new rear shock mount! frame mounts just might not be enough.

 

[SouthernYank]

Crossmember looks great man, I like removable center section. When are you planning on putting your new products up on your site?

 

[CFMi]

i wish you had made these a year ago when i first started ordering parts for my LS swap.... replacing the angle mounts without pre-drilled holes and cross member at the same time is a GREAT idea for any future LS swapper.

hell, just selling some angle mounts with no holes would be a great idea for any engine swap - big block or anything else.


still planning on shipping on monday?




i am def interested in a new rear shock mount! frame mounts just might not be enough.

I should still be able to ship on Monday. Yours is all welded and cleaned, just needs to be boxed up and brought to FedEx. Unfortunately I have to work for my other job in the AM (just found out this afternoon, was planning on working at the shop all day) but I should be able to get it out in the afternoon, barring any unforseen weirdness.
The rear shock mount will hopefully be mocked up on Monday too, so you guys can see what I'm thinking about for it.

Crossmember looks great man, I like removable center section. When are you planning on putting your new products up on your site?

Thanks man! I've been building engine crossmembers for a while, and I've always had a removeable center section in them. I can't understand why very few others do that. Of course if they don't include a track bar mount (which almost none of them do) I guess it's pretty easy to just remove the whole thing.
I will probably get a few things up on the site fairly soon, and also post them into new threads in the Vendor section here on CK5. If there is anything you want in the meantime though, please feel free to PM me and we can work something out

-Darren