Adventurous 4x4
1/2 ton status
Look at the picture again, nobody is holding the wrench. It might not be totally safe but in a pinch it will work. Just stand clear while it's running. 
CK5
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TUBE ROLLER BUILD, UPDATE 1/24/12, post 71 NEW pics
- Thread starter rdn2blazer
- Start date
Holy God Robert. You never stop amazing me. 
Look at the picture again, nobody is holding the wrench. It might not be totally safe but in a pinch it will work. Just stand clear while it's running.
Sure glad we don't work together. You would NEVER catch me holding something like that or propping it against something to hold it.
If i ever caught someone working with me doing something that dangerous you can bet the supervisor would be hearing about it. There are other people that could get hurt/killed from someone elses stupidity and it WILL NOT be me.
Holy God Robert. You never stop amazing me.
Thanks Hoby. Not going to update this till I get all the parts together. Then there will be one big update. I have parts on order right now as a matter of fact too. Still going to take a little bit, but it will come.
Have a little bit of an update. Got a few things machined and a couple things I ordered in. Machined the second set of rollers that will be the Outboard set of dies. The ones marked #1, 2, 3, are the inboard set of rollers and #4, 5, 6, are the out board set. The only, I guess some might consider bad thing is that some of the rollers are inboard and outboard location spicific. It's not a big deal really to me. If this Delrin holds up without cracking, cool, there easy to make. #3 and #6 rollers are the same, those can go either inboard or outboard.
As you can see the #1, #2 rollers are 5" wide made to fit inside the plates, while #3 fits inside the pressure saddle assembly. The Outboard rollers are the same width as the one for the pressure roller assembly, but a narrower design then the 5" so as to minimize the overhang load on the shafts since they won't be in double shear. You can see I even counter bored the #4 & #5 dies to slip over the bearing block sleeves to get the centerline of the radius as close to the support bearing as possible. The two slots on the opposite side are how the outboard rollers will be driven. Both #4 and #5 rollers have C'bore's on one end and slots on the opposite end.
I machined the set screw coupling in the pic to have two lugs or drive cleats that engage into the slots in the two outboard drive rollers. I machined both ends of the coupler to have teeth and I'm having a buddy EDM it in half for me so I don't lose material, not that it would be much if I band sawed it in two and faced off both halves in the lathe or parted it off on the lathe. The interupted cut would be hard on a cut off blade with the keyway in the bore though, to dangerous to do IMHO. so EDM it was and it's not costing anything anyways. The minor rust on the coupling cleaned right up too.
I got my 1 1/2-5 ACME threaded rod and Bronze Acme nut in. Have the cut it to length and mill one end to a hex for a socket to fit to drive it and the other end will get turned to 1.000 to fit the Timken tapered bearing and bushing in the saddle pressure assembly. I also need to drill & bore the top plate for the bronze Acme nut to be pressed in to it.
As you can see the #1, #2 rollers are 5" wide made to fit inside the plates, while #3 fits inside the pressure saddle assembly. The Outboard rollers are the same width as the one for the pressure roller assembly, but a narrower design then the 5" so as to minimize the overhang load on the shafts since they won't be in double shear. You can see I even counter bored the #4 & #5 dies to slip over the bearing block sleeves to get the centerline of the radius as close to the support bearing as possible. The two slots on the opposite side are how the outboard rollers will be driven. Both #4 and #5 rollers have C'bore's on one end and slots on the opposite end.
I machined the set screw coupling in the pic to have two lugs or drive cleats that engage into the slots in the two outboard drive rollers. I machined both ends of the coupler to have teeth and I'm having a buddy EDM it in half for me so I don't lose material, not that it would be much if I band sawed it in two and faced off both halves in the lathe or parted it off on the lathe. The interupted cut would be hard on a cut off blade with the keyway in the bore though, to dangerous to do IMHO. so EDM it was and it's not costing anything anyways. The minor rust on the coupling cleaned right up too.
I got my 1 1/2-5 ACME threaded rod and Bronze Acme nut in. Have the cut it to length and mill one end to a hex for a socket to fit to drive it and the other end will get turned to 1.000 to fit the Timken tapered bearing and bushing in the saddle pressure assembly. I also need to drill & bore the top plate for the bronze Acme nut to be pressed in to it.
more pics
The pressure saddle will have these Delrin, what I call slide guides mounted to the sides, these will slide against the main Aluminum plates instead of having steel against Aluminum causing wear on the Aluminum plates. The saddle assembly and slide guides were left long to figure out the best length once the threaded rod was bolted up. The machining there still is in the future design stages. Also the fit of this assembly is just a few thousands less then the span of the Aluminum plates so there will be no side to side deflection. Also the reason for the large diameter Acme rod, it's good and robust size will minimize any deflection.
The slide guides will mount using counter sunk flat head fasteners of course. The white washer is a 1/8 thick Delrin washer that will go between a steel washer and the bushing in the saddle. I'll turn a 1" fine thread and 1.000 diameter on the Acme thread for it to bolt to the saddle assembly. I'll use a Nylock nut there so it won't back off.
There will be just enough torque on the nut against the steel washer to secure it to the saddle assy, nut and steel washer will rotate against the Delrin washer. Some tention on the nut will be over powered by the leverage on the crank handle or ratchet when adding pressure to the pressure roller.
The slide guides will mount using counter sunk flat head fasteners of course. The white washer is a 1/8 thick Delrin washer that will go between a steel washer and the bushing in the saddle. I'll turn a 1" fine thread and 1.000 diameter on the Acme thread for it to bolt to the saddle assembly. I'll use a Nylock nut there so it won't back off.
There will be just enough torque on the nut against the steel washer to secure it to the saddle assy, nut and steel washer will rotate against the Delrin washer. Some tention on the nut will be over powered by the leverage on the crank handle or ratchet when adding pressure to the pressure roller.
We repair the tangs on our drill bits at work all the time. Some of these 2"+ drill bits are too expensive to just chuck out because of a broken tang.
Nice work on the roller, I'll be interested in seeing the finished product!
We repair the tangs on our drill bits at work all the time. Some of these 2"+ drill bits are too expensive to just chuck out because of a broken tang.
Nice work on the roller, I'll be interested in seeing the finished product!
It does depend of how bad it is damaged. I have seen some beyond the worth while repair time. But yes your correct, some are fixable. Thanks for the props. It's coming along. DAMN I wish I had another lathe. I really need to aquire another one. And a mill too.
I'm just a lowly Aircraft mechanic, ex-Automotive mechanic. What your doing, building a machine to "roll tubing" is well, out of my league. I think it's cool, that you can do it and make it work. I wish I had the resources for that kind of stuff.
I can't wait to see what you can do with this thing.
I can't wait to see what you can do with this thing.
I'm just a lowly Aircraft mechanic, ex-Automotive mechanic. What your doing, building a machine to "roll tubing" is well, out of my league. I think it's cool, that you can do it and make it work. I wish I had the resources for that kind of stuff.
I can't wait to see what you can do with this thing.
Thanks man, much appreciated. It ain't that hard really. Just have to use some brain power. Learn the skill of machining which if you have a mechanical mind set and know how to be fairly precision, learning the rest is easy. I kinda coppied someone's design, then made the changes I wanted to improove it. Granted they were a huge departure from what I coppied but still, not all that difficult to think of.
Only thing from what I coppied really was the actual shape of the plates them selves. The rest has radically changed, but as I said, it's just thought process and brain storming. I love taking an existing product and improoving on it. Usually it's not hard to do. There's almost nothing that can't be improoved upon. I cant wait to have a posted video of it rolling two tubes at once. The goal and theory is identical arcs. If that happens I will be incredibly stoked. One guy on another site has shot this thing down to the point of actually being an ass hole for the most. Can't wait to make him eat his words. Which is what I told him he WILL be doing when it works like I planned it to.
We need a link to this asshat so we can all watch him eat his words. 
We need a link to this asshat so we can all watch him eat his words.
He's backed down for now. Says he will reserve his judgement for when it's completed and posted up on how it works. His last post was positive. It's on OFN. link.
http://www.offroadfabnet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7161
Couple of update pics. I'm having a machine shop turn the 1 1/2" Acme shaft for the jack screw for the pressure roller for me. The lathes I have access to don't have a big enough thru bore on the spindle. So I had to have a shop turn a 1-14 fine thread on one end, and a 1 1/4 hex on the other end for me. After that is finished and I get it back I can finish the pressure roller saddle assembly and it for the most done. Here it is basically put together. Still need to get motor, sprockets & chain and either build a frame or mount it to an existing bench. There is some detail machining I want to do but it's not actually necessary for funtion. Will just make it look trick. Still want to anodize it too.
Finally finished polishing the 1 1/2 stainless steel shafts. That was alot of work but well work doing it. Was going to buy shafts but since I had access to 1 1/2 SS why not. They will never rust. The shafts measured 1.5015 to 1.502. I used a 2 1/2" wide 180 grit belt from a Burr King belt sander, turned it inside out and put an aluminum bar in it to pull on and sand the shaft. Basically lap it down to 1.498 plus minus .0002. When I got down to .001 left I used finer and finer sand paper to lap it to almost a mirror finish. It's plenty smooth enough. It took about 6 hours of lapping to complete each shaft. My hands were sore from that big time. Held about .0004 total diameter variation end to end. Fits in the bearing blocks and rollers perfectly.
The shafts are a little longer then I needed so I had something to chuck on to, will cut to length and chamfer once I have the sprockets and mock that all up. You can see the teeth on the collar is what will drive the front outer rollers. Not a keyway piece of key stock. Don't have access to Broaching and didn't want the keyway cut thru the roller since their Delrin plastic to cause a weak crack point in the rollers. The 1/2 slots for the coller are into the meat, or thickest part of the rollers, and only 3/4 deep. Got all the bearing block bolts cut to length too.
Finally finished polishing the 1 1/2 stainless steel shafts. That was alot of work but well work doing it. Was going to buy shafts but since I had access to 1 1/2 SS why not. They will never rust. The shafts measured 1.5015 to 1.502. I used a 2 1/2" wide 180 grit belt from a Burr King belt sander, turned it inside out and put an aluminum bar in it to pull on and sand the shaft. Basically lap it down to 1.498 plus minus .0002. When I got down to .001 left I used finer and finer sand paper to lap it to almost a mirror finish. It's plenty smooth enough. It took about 6 hours of lapping to complete each shaft. My hands were sore from that big time. Held about .0004 total diameter variation end to end. Fits in the bearing blocks and rollers perfectly.
The shafts are a little longer then I needed so I had something to chuck on to, will cut to length and chamfer once I have the sprockets and mock that all up. You can see the teeth on the collar is what will drive the front outer rollers. Not a keyway piece of key stock. Don't have access to Broaching and didn't want the keyway cut thru the roller since their Delrin plastic to cause a weak crack point in the rollers. The 1/2 slots for the coller are into the meat, or thickest part of the rollers, and only 3/4 deep. Got all the bearing block bolts cut to length too.
runamok151
1 ton status
awesome work so far. i wish in had the faintest clue how to even start something like that. what's the purpose of using the plastic rollers? wouldn't steel last longer w/ out deforming or the risk of splitting? i could understand on the pressure roller to get traction and move the tube, but why the others?
Several reasons. The plastic was free. Don't have the steel in that diameter and round bar by weight is pricy, Aluminum is too. Even if I did the old worn out lathe I did them on would never handle the tool load of a straight plunge cut like I did, even a HUGE lathe would not handle a plunge cutting like that, but that old lathe cut the Delrin fairly easy. I would have to make a radius cutting attachment for the lathe to single point cut the raduis in steel or Aluminum rollers. I could easily make a rad attachment but that in and of itself is a project that takes time. I would like to make one at some point but didn't want to HAVE to right now.
Plastic dies have been done and prooven to work. The type of plastic is important and the width of the radius is important too. You do run the risk of splitting if the tube is too tight. When rolling tube your not going to flatten it or spread it out like with bending tube around a die in a regular bender. Of course in a bender it's trying t flatten out big time. That the reason the tube "sticks" in the dies once the pressure has been taken off the tube. Rolling in a much larger arc, that is minimized by alot. I machined the rollers exactly 1.750. It fits in DOM with a mild snug fit. HREW tube runs about .010 oversized unually. I would be a little more concerned with rolling that then DOM.
The plastic one other guy used was Nylatron. His dies worked and didn't crack. It's about 35 bucks a foot. The Delrin I used has a slightly lesser tensil strength but I feel it's good enough. Keep in mind this is a prototype build. These bugs need to be tested and worked out to see if there is issues. If this plastic holds up. It's all good. I won't buy Delrin, it's expensive. When I have to buy it I will use Nylatron aswell. I did start a set of Aluminum roller too, just can't do the radius cause I don't have a radius attachment. Those will be 1 1/2 dies.
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runamok151
1 ton status
i see said the blind man
What! a whole month and no updates 
......just kiddin. Sounds like you've been working a lot though. I hope to see this completed when you get some time to work on it.
Very nice work BTW
......just kiddin. Sounds like you've been working a lot though. I hope to see this completed when you get some time to work on it.Very nice work BTW
What! a whole month and no updates
Very nice work BTW
Having an issue getting a part machined I need. Our machines at work don't have the thru spindle I need to turn the 1.500 Acma threaded shaft. I took it to a shop, was quoted 125 @ two week turn around. After three weeks with my material they call and ask for two more weeks. I just picked the material up and tried to find another place to do it. Couple places would not take the job and one shop said 250. Thats insane for three hours worth of work. I'm on the verge of buying my own lathe to do it. But, I really don't want to buy a conventional lathe. I was a cnc toolrool lathe.
And really I want a mill first, but if I had to, I would buy a lathe first. Thinking about a HAAS or TRAK, not sure yet. This will have to come after I pay my truck off first. Which will not be till the end of the year. I will get the shaft turned somehow before then so I will porbably buy a mill first anyways. Still probably a HAAS too. If I had deep pockets I would buy an OKUMA mill though.
So you need to find someone to turn a 1.500 Acme thread for you? I could probably find someone up here to do that, but the logistics of it may make it prohibitive.
