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TUBE ROLLER BUILD, UPDATE 1/24/12, post 71 NEW pics
- Thread starter rdn2blazer
- Start date
TheBeast_88K5
Banned
This is quite the impressive build!
Thanks!
I just solved a problem I was having with trying to come up with an idea of how to drive the center rollers between the 1" Aluminum plates. I have to now have some parts Wire EDM machined and have to machine my inboard dies some what to accept the fingered drive collars I have to have made. It will work off the keyway in the shaft. Now with wanting to add a Hydro jack too I have a bunch of parts to make or have made. I don't know EDM machining so I'll have a buddy do it that is an awesome EDM guy. Need to get material first before I hit him up with this job for me.
I just solved a problem I was having with trying to come up with an idea of how to drive the center rollers between the 1" Aluminum plates. I have to now have some parts Wire EDM machined and have to machine my inboard dies some what to accept the fingered drive collars I have to have made. It will work off the keyway in the shaft. Now with wanting to add a Hydro jack too I have a bunch of parts to make or have made. I don't know EDM machining so I'll have a buddy do it that is an awesome EDM guy. Need to get material first before I hit him up with this job for me.
Any updates yet?
A buddy has a couple parts he's machining for me. Just waiting to get those back. I contacted a waterjet place and am going to have some parts waterjet cut out instead of wire EDMed. That way I don't have to drill holes to feed the wire through in hardened A2 tool steel. I also would have had to drill 20 clearence holes for 1/4-20 fasteners, and that would have been pure hell. I've machined ALOT of exotic materials but honestly only ground A2 tool steel.
It can be machined with carbide but it's brutal from what I've read. So waterjet it is. And they can finish everything but the chamfering. But I'll get a few good carbide countersinks and can do that myself easy enough....I hope. I need to get the waterjet guy a cad file of the part, which I'll do tomorrow. I already have the material I picked it up this past Saturday. I have plenty of more parts to either make or have made. I'm going to have to hit my machinist buddies up as I don't have access to machines like I used to.
It pisses me off to HAVE to rely on others to machine stuff for me. But if I can't get it done due to no access nothing else I can do but ask buddies to do it for me. I going to keep going on this till it's all done though.
What part are you using A2 tool steel on?
This is going to get wordy, sorry.
There for the rollers in between the big Aluminum side plates. I hadn't figured out how to drive them off the shafts yet when I was building it. I just figured I would cross that bridge when I came to it. The rolling dies are Delrin plastic and at the center of the 1 3/4 cut radius for the tube the wall thickness to the ID bore is only @ .375 thick.
I didn't want to broach a keyway through the entire length of the roller die because it would have really thinned it down and would crack easily. I thought about cutting a keyway on each end in the meat of the roller die but keeping it times so both keyways line up with the shaft keyway would have been a pita. I would also have to drill & tap the roller die from the 4" OD on both ends of the roller die to the bore and there is no way that would hold with a set screw threaded into plastic locked onto a key.
If they came loose and the key slid out if could lockup in the slot in the aluminum plate for the shaft, or at the least gouge the crap out of the inside of the aluminum plate. So I need a way to drive the roller dies and I came up with basically a custom shaft collar. But instead of a collar that set screws onto the shaft or clamps like a split collar does, it's going to have a male keyway tang on the 1.500 ID bore, of course keying into the shaft keyway.
Then there will be four fingers on the outside perifery, and the roller will have a counter bore that matches the OD of the collar and will have finger cutouts that match the fingers on the collar. So the shaft will drive the collar, and the collar will drive the roller via the fingers. To hold it in place the collar will have a hole through each finger thats counter sunk for a flat head screw. The collar is 1/2 thick so I'll mill the collar pocket to .550 deep so the collar will recess .050 below the face of the roller die on both ends. I'll still have to time the pockets so the keyways align but nothing I can do about that.
The reason for the material being A2 spicifically is toughness. I figured if it had been made out of say basic 1018 or even say 304 ss, over time the male keyway tang would get mashed on each side of the tang, causing the roller die to slop back and forth a bit. Granted it would take a long time.
I think this is a better method of driving the roller dies then a set screw on the keyway. And there is no keyway to come lose. The flat head fasteners could back out I guess but if I use a stainless steel Keensert for the holes and some locktite it shouldn't be an issue. When I want/need to use another roller die set I'll just swap out the collars to the next set of dies as they all will have the star pocket milled into them.
Ahhhh OK, now I understand what you're doing. So in simplified terms, you're basically making a sprocket to drive the rollers? Neat idea 
No reason to be sorry, I appreciate the explanation.
No reason to be sorry, I appreciate the explanation.
Ahhhh OK, now I understand what you're doing. So in simplified terms, you're basically making a sprocket to drive the rollers? Neat idea
No reason to be sorry, I appreciate the explanation.
Yep, exactly right. I thought also since it works out to be nearly as big a diameter as the 4" rollers it would be stronger then just a keyway sticking out the shaft only about .185 or so. The diameter from tip to tip across the fingers is 3.25. Kind of the same principle as a small 5 lug wheel lug pattern vs a larger 8 lug pattern. It's rotating/driving it from a larger diametrical surface area. Shaft + keyway are only 1.875 with only one actual drive contact point, the keyway. Finger collar like I said is 3.25 in dia. with four contact drive points. Hardest part will just be timing one pocket on one end to the other pocket on the opposite pocket so the keyways are in line with one another, but thats really no big deal though. I'll figure it out, thats what machinists do right
.
Took my A2 tool steel to the waterjey guy. Should have the parts back next week. Ordered some flat head cap screws so I can change the bearing block bolts to flat heads. Once changed there won't be any bolts and nuts sticking through on the inboard side like in the picture. Will allow for easier roller die removal and give me more material capacity to boot.
UPDATE
I picked up the custom shaft colars I designed and had waterjet cut out. Very happy with how well they came out. They aren't perfect as they just barley don't fit the shaft. There just a touch on the tight side which is fine, would rather have them too tight so I can diamond file to fit, vs be too loose and sloppy. The ID is 1.500 about 75/80% of the diameter, then in a small area it drops undersized a bit. Not enough to be concerned with. Like I said I'll just file fit them and they well be perfect.
I'll now need to chamfer for one side for 82' deg. flathead allen socket cap screws. I need to buy those screws too still. Will pick up some stainless steel screws. As you can see in the picture with the part in the roller, I'll chuck the roller in the lathe, counter bore to fit the OD of the colar in both ends, then put it in a mill and indicate the counter bore, then mill the slots for the four drive fingers. I'll have to make sure the fingers are times so the keyway on both colars are exactly in line with one another. Other wise it wont fit the shaft.
This I think is a very good design and will drive the rollers inboard the side plates very well. Can not wait to get this finished up and roll some tubing!!! First tube rolling project will be a custom gate for my driveway with a nice arc'ed top tube and mabe some arc'ed tube for the vertical bars too. Not sure if I'll make square tube dies and use square tube or round. Thinking of using square tube but roll it corner to corner for a different kind of diamond shape cool look. I'll have to machine custom 45' deg. "V" dies for that setup. What do you think? Here is a pic of the gate I want to replace. It will have stained wood inlay in it too. Probably dark Cherry wood, something like that. Gloss black or flat black powder coated frame with Cherry wood inlay.
I picked up the custom shaft colars I designed and had waterjet cut out. Very happy with how well they came out. They aren't perfect as they just barley don't fit the shaft. There just a touch on the tight side which is fine, would rather have them too tight so I can diamond file to fit, vs be too loose and sloppy. The ID is 1.500 about 75/80% of the diameter, then in a small area it drops undersized a bit. Not enough to be concerned with. Like I said I'll just file fit them and they well be perfect.
I'll now need to chamfer for one side for 82' deg. flathead allen socket cap screws. I need to buy those screws too still. Will pick up some stainless steel screws. As you can see in the picture with the part in the roller, I'll chuck the roller in the lathe, counter bore to fit the OD of the colar in both ends, then put it in a mill and indicate the counter bore, then mill the slots for the four drive fingers. I'll have to make sure the fingers are times so the keyway on both colars are exactly in line with one another. Other wise it wont fit the shaft.
This I think is a very good design and will drive the rollers inboard the side plates very well. Can not wait to get this finished up and roll some tubing!!! First tube rolling project will be a custom gate for my driveway with a nice arc'ed top tube and mabe some arc'ed tube for the vertical bars too. Not sure if I'll make square tube dies and use square tube or round. Thinking of using square tube but roll it corner to corner for a different kind of diamond shape cool look. I'll have to machine custom 45' deg. "V" dies for that setup. What do you think? Here is a pic of the gate I want to replace. It will have stained wood inlay in it too. Probably dark Cherry wood, something like that. Gloss black or flat black powder coated frame with Cherry wood inlay.
Those look good Rob. Those should definitelly work as you want them to. That's going to be fun countersinking those holes 
Some square tube rolled corner to corner would look cool. I would get it powder coated satin black.
Some square tube rolled corner to corner would look cool. I would get it powder coated satin black.
Those look good Rob. Those should definitelly work as you want them to. That's going to be fun countersinking those holes
Some square tube rolled corner to corner would look cool. I would get it powder coated satin black.
Yeah, not looking forward to C' sinking them. Hopefully it's not too bad. Either way I'll get it done. Fortunately I have a brand new 82' deg 3/4 dia. 6 flute carbide counter sink thats to a nice point. I had to go buy a new 1" 6 flute 82' deg sink for the 1/2-13 flatheads that are replacing the hex head bolts for the bearing blocks. I have all kinds of 1" 6 flute and bigger C' sinks but they're either 90' deg or 60' deg C sinks, or their single flute and I hate using those for deep C' sinking by hand in a power drill. You usually end up with a step. In a mill they work fine even for deep C' sinking. I'll use cutting oil to help the cut. Satin black will look nice. Flat may be too flat and gloss will be too gloss I think. Satin Black it is. I had though about satin as well but didn't put alot of thought into it really. Thanks for making me put some though into it.
Any new progress yet?
Unfortunately not. Need time on a mill & lathe and curently have no access to either.
