How hot should a 3 wire get when just hanging in the air? I double checked that I was getting 12v to the sensor but it didn't seem like it was getting all that hot.
CK5
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Tuning a GMPP 383
- Thread starter cuervo
- Start date
How hot should a 3 wire get when just hanging in the air? I double checked that I was getting 12v to the sensor but it didn't seem like it was getting all that hot.
dave w
1/2 ton status
I honestly don't know the answer the "how hot should the 3 wire O2 sensor get" question. Somewhere in my memory, I'm thinking the single wire O2 sensor needs to be about 500 degrees F to work.
dave w
dave w
1/2 ton status
Here is another pic for an example of finding spark knock, from count 54 to count 62.
It's knocking in a low RPM / High Kpa condition. Most of the other knock counts in the data log are occurring in the same condition.dave w
I've got to find out what's going on with my O2 sensor.
I read some stuff about soldering on that wire was not a good idea, something about adding resistance. I figured I'd try a solderless connection and see what happens. Hell, the time it spends on 4 got longer.
I also read some stuff that said the length of the O2 wire was important too.
I read some stuff about soldering on that wire was not a good idea, something about adding resistance. I figured I'd try a solderless connection and see what happens. Hell, the time it spends on 4 got longer.
I also read some stuff that said the length of the O2 wire was important too.
One more bit of information I came upon!!
My motor has votec heads and they take a longer spark plug!!
My motor has votec heads and they take a longer spark plug!!
Your heated O2 will not feel that hot to the touch - it is the element inside that heats.
As for staying low too long: I believe that would drive your your BLMs up if you are not getting a good crossover. That does not seem to be the case in your tune.
The chain of events:
O2 swings from lean to rich back and forth
If O2 is too long on either side then Short Term integrator will move above or below 128.
When Short Term Integrator is above or below 128, then the BLM moves in the same direction to richen or lean the mix.
When BLM is corrected (learned) the O2 will swing at the correct cadence and the Short Term will stabilize on 128.
As for staying low too long: I believe that would drive your your BLMs up if you are not getting a good crossover. That does not seem to be the case in your tune.
The chain of events:
O2 swings from lean to rich back and forth
If O2 is too long on either side then Short Term integrator will move above or below 128.
When Short Term Integrator is above or below 128, then the BLM moves in the same direction to richen or lean the mix.
When BLM is corrected (learned) the O2 will swing at the correct cadence and the Short Term will stabilize on 128.
I'm thinking the part of the O2s issue is with the splicing of the old O2 connector to the 3 prong connector. The wire types are different as well. I ordered some weather pack terminal pins and will just repin the connector using one solid wire. I read that soldering on that wire is not a good idea and that you should only use butt connectors. I'm not sure if it changes the resistance but I figure I'll just do away with the splice all together.
dave w
1/2 ton status
I've soldered O2 sensor wires, and have not seen any issues with O2 sensor readings. Typically, I will crimp new Weather Pack pins on the O2 sensor wires and then solder the newly crimped Weather Pack pin. I solder the Weather Pack pin, mostly because the O2 sensor wire is very small AWG wire size and I want insurance the O2 sensor wire won't slip out of the crimp.
dave w
Solder may have a small affect, but O2 sensor works off a voltage swing rather than Ohm readings like a temp sensor. I would not see a small amount of solder changing the voltage.
Yeah, I'm just going on stuff I have read. I really don't know if the molecular structure changing from the heat and solder have any affect on the readings.
We'll see what happens when I get the new connector repinned and installed.
We'll see what happens when I get the new connector repinned and installed.
That was just 2 seconds at idle so not that big a deal, everything else was stable like RPM blm etc...during that time.
Now that you have a heated O2 it should not happen, but I have still seen the heated O2 cool at idle on conversions because of a couple things. One was the heated O2 is placed so far down the exhaust, like in the header collector, that it just cooled down below the 600 degrees needed to work. The header dissipates a lot of heat, ceramic coated headers keep heat in and work better. The other reason and one that brings up all sorts of issues on conversions is the charging system. EFI cars have better alternators that charge at idle, old carb cars and charging systems need some more RPM to charge. EFI needs a good steady supply of minimum 12 volts. So in looking at your short burst of data it looks like you were idling awhile and battery voltage could be dropping, as it drops so does the voltage to heated O2 sensor also drops and heats less. Also the longer you idle heat in exhaust will lower. But for now I wouldn't worry about it, it rebounded and started to cross count again.
Not much like keitha said. I checked mine on the bench and the outside temp got to around 120 degrees, you could still touch it. But that's just radiated heat from the element inside.
Man you don't want to here how many hours I spent trying to make one conversion run because the spark plugs were to short!!! They were Accell plugs for headers, pulled them out and they were only half way into the threaded hole. Went to parts store and got what factory called for and they were twice as long and would put the end of plug in cylinder where it should be! Asked him to look up the Accell equivalent and he went and got one. Sure enough way to short.
My recommendation for plugs are the ones the engine came with. If the car had points but later year had electronic ignition and same heads look up the electronic plug and check that it is same size as the correct one that came out of the head. It must end up in combustion chamber, not in threaded hole. In your case Vortec heads had electronic ignition so get what it calls for. Don't waste your money on all these expensive new snake oil improved spark plugs
I always solder in a connection, if needed in the O2 wire with no issues. So I don't think that is your issue. I'm sure there's an electrical law that would effect length but not in your case, guys extend O2 wires all the time from stock to reach header. Even the factory runs a wire on new cars all the way back to behind the CAT on OBDII cars.
HTH!
I'm still not done with it. It's ten times better then what it was when I first installed it.
I've learned a lot from Mark and David. They are both extremely experienced when it comes to this.
After getting my fuel pressure figured out and finally getting a BPW that was good I've been working on the VE tables.
I purchased a wide band O2, MTX-L from innovate tech, and have been working to get data from wide band into and synced with Tuner Pro logs. I'm very close to having this to the point that I can get some really good data to finish up the tune.
About the only thing left would be to fuss about the timing table.
Kinda curious how much you worked with your mail order tuner to get yours right?
I'm working with the same person you did and he has been pretty damn helpful. I know the first tune I got was rich also. I suppose that is way better then lean if you had to pick which way to error on. Sounds like we have somewhat similiar motors. Although I'm running the 60lb injectors and 54mm TBI. From what I have heard on those 80lb injectors from other people is they are harder to tune for a 383.
I think it's cool you learning this stuff I'm interested in learning it also so if I have some problems I can plug that cable in and figure out what's going on.
Brian is a great guy. The issue with my tune was his recommendation on fuel pressure was wrong. No amount of tuning in the ECM would have fixed it. With the 18 lb spring I had a BPW around 93 or 94 and anything under a 100 is not good. I had to go on the internet to find this out. Once I change the spring and regulator out I to get 15 lbs I have a BPW of 106. After that it was just learning what to change in the tune and how that would affect other things.
I went with 80lb injectors because at the time I could not find 60s. I don't think at this point I would change them out.
With Mark and Dave's and reading the internet I've come a long way in tuning. My knowledge is nothing compared to theirs but I can do minor things like BPW, VE tables and what not. I'm glad I pick up the hardware and software to do this stuff. It's kind of fun.
Good luck on your tune.
I went with 80lb injectors because at the time I could not find 60s. I don't think at this point I would change them out.
With Mark and Dave's and reading the internet I've come a long way in tuning. My knowledge is nothing compared to theirs but I can do minor things like BPW, VE tables and what not. I'm glad I pick up the hardware and software to do this stuff. It's kind of fun.
Good luck on your tune.
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