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Wes's Burb build/update/maintance
- Thread starter Wes Harden
- Start date
No worries Tom.
Yes yes it does i can see the dog bones in the lifter valley through the push rod ans drain back openings
Yes yes it does i can see the dog bones in the lifter valley through the push rod ans drain back openings
I forgot, do you plan to keep this one carbed?
Cam, intake, headers, would really wake it up...
Cam, intake, headers, would really wake it up...
At this moment I do.
I don't know what mercruiser used for a cam grind, but I suspect it wouldn't be best for my needs.
I should have pan and timing cover off today.
I don't know what mercruiser used for a cam grind, but I suspect it wouldn't be best for my needs.
I should have pan and timing cover off today.
Pan is off, it is a 454. The date code I thought was May 2006,
Must be May 96, Mercruiser serial number also falls within 96-97.
Crank casting is 10114188 cast 454 1 piece rear main.
Fairly clean inside, timing chain is clean an tight, no crank sensor reluctor.
Must be May 96, Mercruiser serial number also falls within 96-97.
Crank casting is 10114188 cast 454 1 piece rear main.
Fairly clean inside, timing chain is clean an tight, no crank sensor reluctor.
Wes, was this out of a single engine boat ?
The reason that I ask is if it was a dual engine setup one of them was a counter rotating engine and would be another reason the cam won’t be right regardless of the numbers.
How do ya’ like the size of those main caps compared to the SBC’s ?
Welcome to being a BIG-BLOCK owner!
Assuming your hydraulic roller lifters are in good shape that will save ya’ some serious coin on getting a good cam with enough balls to put some air through that thing, the way it should’ve been from the start - even a mild grind will give you a great power band with those heads.
Doesn’t have to be anything rowdy - just enough to make use to fill a four hundred and fifty-four cubic inch air pump with eight 4.250” round holes goin up-n-down 4” at a time - give it a chance to breath a little without the restrictions GM dealt with by using production choked up intake and cam grinds.
When you realize the power difference with minimal throttle input it will put a smile on your face that ya’ can’t get rid of!
The reason that I ask is if it was a dual engine setup one of them was a counter rotating engine and would be another reason the cam won’t be right regardless of the numbers.
How do ya’ like the size of those main caps compared to the SBC’s ?
Welcome to being a BIG-BLOCK owner!
Assuming your hydraulic roller lifters are in good shape that will save ya’ some serious coin on getting a good cam with enough balls to put some air through that thing, the way it should’ve been from the start - even a mild grind will give you a great power band with those heads.
Doesn’t have to be anything rowdy - just enough to make use to fill a four hundred and fifty-four cubic inch air pump with eight 4.250” round holes goin up-n-down 4” at a time - give it a chance to breath a little without the restrictions GM dealt with by using production choked up intake and cam grinds.
When you realize the power difference with minimal throttle input it will put a smile on your face that ya’ can’t get rid of!
So it was a single engine jet boat, which explains the peanut port small valve heads. Jet pumps like low end grunt.
Am consconsidering a new timing chain, aluminium intake,
And these no cost Hooker headers. Slap it in and see.
I was able to see the cam very well from the bottom, looks very good. Nice thin witness wear marks.
Am consconsidering a new timing chain, aluminium intake,
And these no cost Hooker headers. Slap it in and see.
I was able to see the cam very well from the bottom, looks very good. Nice thin witness wear marks.
Sounds good !
Nothing wrong with gett’n a few things freshened up and running it as is until you are ready for some upgrades - just don’t forget that there is so much more part & full throttle power to be had with the addition of even a fairly mild better roller grind.
Make sure you get the proper intake to match the peanut-ports so everything is working together in harmony.
You’re gonna love the drivability and part throttle response of a peanut-port big-block ( I’m all for better heads but for what you do with your Burb it should be damn nice - just remember there are way better heads available that won’t give up any power down low and give bountifully throughout the whole powerband ).
Now you’re gonna need to go through dialing in your Q-jet again but it will be so very worth it.
Back in the ‘90’s I had a similar engine and gear/tire combo as your current setup will be and liked it a lot.
Initially I had a bone stock ‘83 GMC K-3500 Crew Cab Dooley with a Q-jetted 454 and 4.56 gears with 32” tall tires.
It pulled GREAT, and I mean GREAT, but got about 4mpg on the interstate at speed.
The red-neck in me couldn’t take it and soon enough I lifted it and put on six Super Swamper TSL’s 38x12.50’s which nocked the effective gear ratio way down but it still felt good and mileage jumped up to 14mpg as my best effort.
After that my inner red-neck took over and I upgraded to a fairly nasty roller 454 that had absolutely no business being in that truck but that’s a story for another time.
The third 454 I ran in that truck was outta NVRENUF’s original ‘80 K-10 that was his first big-block - it was a almost a 10:1 compression setup with a set of 049’s , Performer intake and a Cam Dynamics grind hydraulic flat tappet 228 @ .050 .533 lift on a 108* topped off with a very well tuned Q-jet and it ran great ! On or off-road it never lacked for power - even in high range 4WD with a manual transmission.
So your relatively stock peanut-port motor with a Q-jet , 37” tall tires and 4.88’s should not disappoint but always keep in mind that this is the lowest relm of 454 power options and it only gets better from there. Come on in - the water is fine and the power is abundant if ya’ choose the correct parts. Well, even if ya select the wrong parts it will still make power but nowhere near what it’s capable of putt’n out.
Nothing wrong with gett’n a few things freshened up and running it as is until you are ready for some upgrades - just don’t forget that there is so much more part & full throttle power to be had with the addition of even a fairly mild better roller grind.
Make sure you get the proper intake to match the peanut-ports so everything is working together in harmony.
You’re gonna love the drivability and part throttle response of a peanut-port big-block ( I’m all for better heads but for what you do with your Burb it should be damn nice - just remember there are way better heads available that won’t give up any power down low and give bountifully throughout the whole powerband ).
Now you’re gonna need to go through dialing in your Q-jet again but it will be so very worth it.
Back in the ‘90’s I had a similar engine and gear/tire combo as your current setup will be and liked it a lot.
Initially I had a bone stock ‘83 GMC K-3500 Crew Cab Dooley with a Q-jetted 454 and 4.56 gears with 32” tall tires.
It pulled GREAT, and I mean GREAT, but got about 4mpg on the interstate at speed.
The red-neck in me couldn’t take it and soon enough I lifted it and put on six Super Swamper TSL’s 38x12.50’s which nocked the effective gear ratio way down but it still felt good and mileage jumped up to 14mpg as my best effort.
After that my inner red-neck took over and I upgraded to a fairly nasty roller 454 that had absolutely no business being in that truck but that’s a story for another time.
The third 454 I ran in that truck was outta NVRENUF’s original ‘80 K-10 that was his first big-block - it was a almost a 10:1 compression setup with a set of 049’s , Performer intake and a Cam Dynamics grind hydraulic flat tappet 228 @ .050 .533 lift on a 108* topped off with a very well tuned Q-jet and it ran great ! On or off-road it never lacked for power - even in high range 4WD with a manual transmission.
So your relatively stock peanut-port motor with a Q-jet , 37” tall tires and 4.88’s should not disappoint but always keep in mind that this is the lowest relm of 454 power options and it only gets better from there. Come on in - the water is fine and the power is abundant if ya’ choose the correct parts. Well, even if ya select the wrong parts it will still make power but nowhere near what it’s capable of putt’n out.
Thinking about throwing the degree wheel on it and see whats in it. Mercruiser didn't have to use cafe standards.
The heads show as HT502 useage. HT being heavy truck, well my burb ain't skinny ans has more steel additions in its future
The heads show as HT502 useage. HT being heavy truck, well my burb ain't skinny ans has more steel additions in its future
Yeah the HT454/502’s shared most all parts such as cam, valve train and heads between them.
Mercruiser ( at least what we saw at the speed shop in the ‘90’s ) base line GEN-6 high-torque versions swapped out the base production cam for one with around 20* more duration and a few degrees less LSA but kept the lift rather low.
A rep explained to us that it ( the limits on lift numbers ) was so that Mercruiser did not have to change out or do any modifications to valve springs and components on the base 454’s and retained production parts whenever possible.
The production ( what the Mercruiser is based off of ) L29’s cam specs should be as follows:
GM # - 12552296
204/209 @ .050
.480”/.483” lift
118 LSA
The usual Mercruiser replacement/swap out cam is:
GM # - 12551622
225/225 @ .050
.483”/.483” lift
115.5 LSA
The Mercruiser cam duration is just starting to look appealing but what’s really holding it back is the very low lift numbers that are limited by the valve springs being used.
Please let me know what the results are once you’ve degreed the cam - I’m interested in knowing if there were other grinds used on the peanut-port versions.
Mercruiser ( at least what we saw at the speed shop in the ‘90’s ) base line GEN-6 high-torque versions swapped out the base production cam for one with around 20* more duration and a few degrees less LSA but kept the lift rather low.
A rep explained to us that it ( the limits on lift numbers ) was so that Mercruiser did not have to change out or do any modifications to valve springs and components on the base 454’s and retained production parts whenever possible.
The production ( what the Mercruiser is based off of ) L29’s cam specs should be as follows:
GM # - 12552296
204/209 @ .050
.480”/.483” lift
118 LSA
The usual Mercruiser replacement/swap out cam is:
GM # - 12551622
225/225 @ .050
.483”/.483” lift
115.5 LSA
The Mercruiser cam duration is just starting to look appealing but what’s really holding it back is the very low lift numbers that are limited by the valve springs being used.
Please let me know what the results are once you’ve degreed the cam - I’m interested in knowing if there were other grinds used on the peanut-port versions.
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The Mercury-Mercruiser 431-850453T camshaft has a lift of .480/.483 inches and an advertised duration of 273/298 degrees. It is designed for stock, oval port 7.4L marine engines.
The Melling replacement show 118° of lobe sep, Mercrusier doesn't think it's important
@tarussell
You nailed it, I haven't measured mine yet. I'll check the valve lift and see if it matches either of those cams
The Melling replacement show 118° of lobe sep, Mercrusier doesn't think it's important
@tarussell
You nailed it, I haven't measured mine yet. I'll check the valve lift and see if it matches either of those cams
It’ll still make a bunch of torque
Tom nailed it intake lift I measured is .483.
Bared engine over with 7 plugs in, definitely has compression.
With out plugs nice and smooth rotation.
Plugs nice clean touch of tan, 43 heat range.
All very similar.
Looking at the valve springs, they don't look normal gm to me.
Am open to cam suggestions. As I understand it the Mercruiser 454ho doesn't have good or no valve reliefs, so keep that in mind.
Looking for big torque, and enough hp to pull my fat ass burb to the top of decent grade, w/o ending up at 30mph. All through a 700r4. I know big ask.
Bared engine over with 7 plugs in, definitely has compression.
With out plugs nice and smooth rotation.
Plugs nice clean touch of tan, 43 heat range.
All very similar.
Looking at the valve springs, they don't look normal gm to me.
Am open to cam suggestions. As I understand it the Mercruiser 454ho doesn't have good or no valve reliefs, so keep that in mind.
Looking for big torque, and enough hp to pull my fat ass burb to the top of decent grade, w/o ending up at 30mph. All through a 700r4. I know big ask.
Even a dumb blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then…finally someone benefited from the stock pile of mostly old antiquated useless information that’s treasured up in my head.
I’ll do some think’n on a mild wiggle-stick numbers but gett’n @folkenheath in on this would be wise. There are lift limitations on those OEM lifters and I’m certain that he will advise wisely.
I gotta 454 hydraulic-roller cam from him not long ago and what I wanted was somewhat of an odd application to make the most from existing parts being used.
I had spent quite a while digg’n through catalogs and found several grinds that would work but I wanted another’s input that was more up to date - and I’ve watched his advice on this board and truly believed that he was a true Motörhead and not just a retailer so I called him up.
Most “cam tech help” folks will stick
straight from the manufacturers recommendations and won’t entertain anything other then full throttle dyno results. Folkenheath listened to my request and questions and actually understood what we were after and came up with a few selections and I ended up going with one of his recommendations rather then what I initially chose.
I ordered it from him on the spot fully expecting it to take a while since it was not a usual “on the shelf” part number in stock at most wholesalers but he found a supplier who had one and drop shipped it to me directly.
The cost was right, service was great and more importantly he took the time to understand what we were after and did more than just play it safe and quote from the book or basic dyno numbers.
So glad you’re think’n about a little better cam, intake and exhaust - even mild stuff will get that fat Burb rolling around with ease with or without a loaded trailer makes no difference because you’ll have throttle to spare.
I’ll do some think’n on a mild wiggle-stick numbers but gett’n @folkenheath in on this would be wise. There are lift limitations on those OEM lifters and I’m certain that he will advise wisely.
I gotta 454 hydraulic-roller cam from him not long ago and what I wanted was somewhat of an odd application to make the most from existing parts being used.
I had spent quite a while digg’n through catalogs and found several grinds that would work but I wanted another’s input that was more up to date - and I’ve watched his advice on this board and truly believed that he was a true Motörhead and not just a retailer so I called him up.
Most “cam tech help” folks will stick
straight from the manufacturers recommendations and won’t entertain anything other then full throttle dyno results. Folkenheath listened to my request and questions and actually understood what we were after and came up with a few selections and I ended up going with one of his recommendations rather then what I initially chose.
I ordered it from him on the spot fully expecting it to take a while since it was not a usual “on the shelf” part number in stock at most wholesalers but he found a supplier who had one and drop shipped it to me directly.
The cost was right, service was great and more importantly he took the time to understand what we were after and did more than just play it safe and quote from the book or basic dyno numbers.
So glad you’re think’n about a little better cam, intake and exhaust - even mild stuff will get that fat Burb rolling around with ease with or without a loaded trailer makes no difference because you’ll have throttle to spare.
Those valve springs definitely don't look like a factory L29 type spring. I wonder if they are from Mercury or they were swapped out. Its also a single spring that doesn't appear to be tapered or beehive, which is not usual. Usually they need a damper if they aren't tapered or beehive as the uniform shape of a single linear spring has too much resonance going on.
Thanks for the kind words, it was a pleasure working with you on that project. I would like to add that your thorough explanations of how you wanted that cam to perform made it much easier to help you select the correct one. You also knew what you were talking about and had realistic expectations of what you could get out of it.
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Wes, look’n over grind specs that will benefit your Burb w/o going too big there is still an issue with these unknown springs. Gotta avoid any form of potential coil bind plain and simple.
I think your pistons are shallow enough that mild lift numbers aren’t a problem.
Are you alright with replacing the valve springs - they are cheap enough and then you’ll be able to select a cam that will be worth it instead of a micro bump above the OEM one that would have trouble keeping a life support system pump running.
Not talk’n about anything crazy at all - just one that should have been in there from the start and give those added cubic inches a chance at breath’n instead of wheez’n.
I think your pistons are shallow enough that mild lift numbers aren’t a problem.
Are you alright with replacing the valve springs - they are cheap enough and then you’ll be able to select a cam that will be worth it instead of a micro bump above the OEM one that would have trouble keeping a life support system pump running.
Not talk’n about anything crazy at all - just one that should have been in there from the start and give those added cubic inches a chance at breath’n instead of wheez’n.
That’s just wrong…. and I’d like to point out that YOU were the one who opened my eyes up to the world of big-blocks way back when I was just an innocent young pup completely content with a strong 350 and a lotta gear.
That day you had 42’s with only 4.56’s on your old ‘80 K-10 truck and stuck it in high range started cutting never ending doughnuts and sling’n buckets of heavy mud and the TH400 was able to hold second gear the whole time - it was then that I started my quest for my first 454 and within a week I had a marine big-block and I’ve never been the same since.
Now that I’ve seen the light there’s no putt’n this crack pipe down - we all need 632’s !
yep am good to replace springs. I think it's a wear item so a MAW monster.
