beags86
Eastbound and Down
That's true, but the wiring is shit. It needs a complete rewire regardless.
I might as well get it done and out of the way.
CK5
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1976 C-10 Stepside Shortbox - Beagle's Build
- Thread starter beags86
- Start date
I might as well get it done and out of the way.
Quit worrying about this thing and get that Chevelle runnin eh
beags86
Eastbound and Down
I'm not. I haven't been worried about it for 2-3 years now.....
In fact, I'm picking up some go-jacks tomorrow to roll it into the corner....
I replaced all the wiring in my stepside about 10 years ago. I had a new harness made by M&H electrical fabricators. They were the only company that would even talk to me about a diesel wiring harness.
It was a fairly simple swap though. I went slow and labeled everything as I unhooked it and noted how it was routed. Install was the reverse. It was one of the "easier" projects on the truck.
brokenparts
1/2 ton status
I recently purchased a “kit” from American auto wire for my swb and am very pleased with the physical wiring but the additional documents to help with the installation.
The previous owner’s hack:
Looking forward to gutting that mess and installing this:
Lots of additional support is on their website too.
The previous owner’s hack:
Looking forward to gutting that mess and installing this:
Lots of additional support is on their website too.
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I was going through some old threads and thought I’d bump this conversation.
Heard any feed back on this MPFI system?
I know what was said about the Sniper, but maybe this kit is better
Still seems a bit high priced
beags86
Eastbound and Down
This is going to be completely different then the self tune sniper, this uses the Holley HP ecu.
This isn't self tuning. I can't claim to be tuner or anything of the sort. But there is only one way to learn.
I am not going to type 15 miles of stuff about this ecu, so I cut and pasted from the Holley website.
So mind you some of features here won't be applicable to my set up. ( LS stuff)
Features:
- NEW V4 SOFTWARE FEATURES
- “Quick Start” ignition and fueling strategy for LS x Engines
- Data Logger. Scalable axes, Smoothing, Multiple graph view ability, Pre-defined notes fields and many more
- Strip Chart Real-Time Data Viewer
- Integrated Boost Control - Boost vs Time, Boost vs Gear (Time or RPM), Boost vs RPM, Boost vs Speed, Launch control. Boost launch builder, Over-boost safeties, Boost scramble
- Traction Control - Power reduction via timing, nitrous percentage or boost (Requires Davis Technologies Holley Module)
- “Quick Start” fueling for all engines
- Option for VE based fueling strategy
- Fuel Map and Learn Function Smoothing
- Configurable User Password Protection
- Fully Configurable lap top Gauge Panel
- FEATURES
- Optional 5.7” full-color touchscreen LCD allows easy on-the-fly tuning,data-logging or can be used as an easy to see graphical gauge panel
- Eight sequentially driven 8:2 peak and hold injector drivers, capable of driving up to 16 low or high impedance injectors as a standard feature. Multiple staged injector strategies
- Eight channel Distributorless Ignition (DIS)outputs capable of directly driving “Smart” ignition coils or Holley DIS coils. Will drive 2 wire coils with the addition of PN 554-112 high current coil driver module
- Plug and Play control of factory GM 24x and 58x LSx engines
- Integrated single channel wide band oxygen sensor control. Works with NTK or Bosch sensors
- Internal data-logging standard with a huge 2GB of memory
- 4 Stage progressive nitrous control
- Turbo boost control
- Integrated water/methanol injection control
- Self-tuning fuel table strategy greatly simplifies tuning process
- Individual cylinder fuel and spark control allows you to unlock your engine’s potential
- Works with 4, 6, 8 cylinder engines
- Unique lb/hr based fueling strategy greatly simplifies and commonizes tuning
- Advanced idle, closed loop, and enrichment strategies allow for very stable operation
- ECU is fully potted and can be mounted in the engine compartment or interior
- Sealed automotive and marine grade connectors
- Allows for use of common OEM sensors as well as customer sensor calibration input
- Ignition Plug and Play with GM 24x and 58x LSx engines, GM HEI, Ford TFI, magnetic and hall effect trigger, and other ignition systems. New Plug and Play applications in process. Custom settings can be configured to allow many other applications
- 1-5 Bar MAP sensor capability
- Two channel knock control sensor Inputs for both one or two wire knock sensors
- Dedicated fuel and oil pressure inputs
- Controls both stepper and PWM Idle Air Control (IAC) motors
- Speed density, Alpha-N, or combination fueling strategies
- 4 Programmable high or low Pulse Width Modulated (PWM) outputs and 4 fully configurable inputs can be configured for use
- 4 Stage nitrous oxide control
- Fully featured nitrous control eliminates the need for a separate nitrous controller device
- Can be configured “Wet” or “Dry” with closed loop feedback
- Progressive control based on time, RPM, or boost, requires part # 554-111
- Lean or rich safety cutoff
- Full timing retard/control configurability per stage based on RPM or time
- Integrated Water/Methanol injection control
- Uses Holley Water/Meth solenoids specially designed and calibrated for use with this EFI system to allow the user to enter Water/Meth flow as a percentage of fuel injector flow for Water/Meth tubing.
So that's what they list. This is not what I would call a beginner kit. This will be advanced work to tune it and make it right. This won't be for the guy that wants to toss one on his L31 and call it a day.
The price point reflects that.
Some the things I like was the DIS ignition out puts, the boost control, and individual cylinder spark/Ignition control, and the traction control, and the data logging.
I would like to run coil on plug on my big block if I ever actually step up that that F1 I talked about at one time.
Now to answer the question, I haven't heard anything about it because I haven't looked.
There is a fairly big possibility I go in a different direction then this system with some of the newer cheaper stuff coming out these days. Like FI tech, pro flow, etc, etc.
I don't know we will see.
I do know that regardless that the Holley ecu's offer the most options for tuning and control. Actually it's not even close how much better Holley is. And I think that maybe (and I say Maybe) why the self -learn/self tune stuff they have suffers. They don't care as much about that line of stuff.
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I agree the Holley HP and Dominator ECUs are setting the standard right now, but the self tuning is just as good or not better as well. Not only would I take the sniper over FITech, actually the Holley HP and Dominator ECUs both have very good self tuning capabilities. They have a seperate fuel table called a "learn table", and you can not only turn it on and off, you can also set separate limits for both enrichment and pulling fuel out in many different increments for both RPM and MAP. Because of this the self tuning is actually way more sophisticated than the self tuning of many others, because of how much control you have over when and where it works and how much.
For example, if you have a large cam with a lot of overlap, it will cause the 02 sensors to see extra oxygen at lower RPMs. Well, you don't have to shut the self learning off, you can shut it off below a certain RPM. And taking it a step further, you can tell it, below a certain RPM, you are only allowed to pull out fuel, not add it. This will prevent the ECU from making the engine pig rich at low RPMs while still allowing it to learn at higher RPMs and pull fuel at lower RPMs if needed. And you haven't even touched the separate MAP portion of the table.
Also, the learn fuel table is seperate, so you have control over that too. You can delete it all together and just go back to the base table, or you can tell the software to "add" it to the base table and it will become one and then the learn table starts over again. You have complete control, or you can let it do its thing and never touch it, its up to you. I have attached a screen shot of the self learning limit chart as an example. There is a similar chart for both closed loop or learning control, they are separated as well.
For example, if you have a large cam with a lot of overlap, it will cause the 02 sensors to see extra oxygen at lower RPMs. Well, you don't have to shut the self learning off, you can shut it off below a certain RPM. And taking it a step further, you can tell it, below a certain RPM, you are only allowed to pull out fuel, not add it. This will prevent the ECU from making the engine pig rich at low RPMs while still allowing it to learn at higher RPMs and pull fuel at lower RPMs if needed. And you haven't even touched the separate MAP portion of the table.
Also, the learn fuel table is seperate, so you have control over that too. You can delete it all together and just go back to the base table, or you can tell the software to "add" it to the base table and it will become one and then the learn table starts over again. You have complete control, or you can let it do its thing and never touch it, its up to you. I have attached a screen shot of the self learning limit chart as an example. There is a similar chart for both closed loop or learning control, they are separated as well.
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beags86
Eastbound and Down
I figured you would jump in with some better information. (I was hoping you would at least) as I know you have a running setup. And as I know of, on this site, I think you might be the only one as well. I wasn't aware you could actually set these up as a self tune. But hell what do I know, I haven't even installed my ez-efi I bought 3 years ago yet. (Although thats a different red car type of thing)
In the name of the thread, a lot of people ask questions about timing control about the carb style kits. Anything you want to add about the capabilities of these ecu's regarding that Heath?
Honestly for me and my engine wants a multipoint system was the only I've ever entertained. Never a self learning throttle body style.
One thing I think should be pointed out with any of these efi systems, is the quality of the info you put into the parameters you can set can make a huge difference. Also stuff like fuel pressure and injector flow rates etc if you don’t guess and actually know the ratings will make or break it.
All the self learning does is shape the VE table for you.
All the self learning does is shape the VE table for you.
The timing control is pretty unlimited with both the Holley HP or Dominator ECUs. (As you know, they use the same exact software, the Dominator has a few more connectors for more programmable options, and also adds trans control and/or drive by wire).
Anyway, the timing control is pretty unlimited. You can control anything from an old points distributor to a DIS system and everything in between. I usually go all or nothing. If I am going to go electronic timing control, I'd rather go all out and ditch the distributor.
I actually have mine setup as DIS. I made a custom 36-1 tooth crank target wheel (you can buy these through Holley for most setups), and used an Accel distributor for a 90s TBI I believe that has the cam sensor in it just for phasing. However, this comes with a block off cap and not an actual distributor cap, so it doesn't have a cap or rotor, it just sends a cam sync signal and drives the oil pump.
Here is the GM version:
https://www.eficonnection.com/home/...tor-1x-signal-for-4-3l-v6-sbc-and-bbc-engines
However, it's a lot easier if you have an LS, old small block, or Gen6 big block, because you can use the factory GM cam sync kit that includes a timing cover and cam timing set that has sensors built into it for both cam and crank, such as this...
DIS Conversion Kit
The DIS allows you to have unlimited timing without worrying about rotor phasing, or parts wearing out. Crank triggers also eliminate the error you get from sending the timing through the timing chain and cam and cam distributor gear. The timing is rock solid, way more solid than you ever see without a crank trigger, you notice when you sync the ECU to the actual engine timing with a timing light.
Once you do that conversion kit, you could buy the terminator LS kit (which comes with an HP or Dominator ECU), and plug and play, assuming you get the correct 58x or 24x harness along with the correct injector harness, etc. The ECUs that come with the terminator kits are actually the same exact HP or Dominator ECUs(depending on if you get DBW or trans control), so if the little handheld doesn't have enough options for you, you just plug in your laptop and you have nearly limitless options. And its considerably cheaper than buying the dominator ECU separate.
Anyway, the timing control is pretty unlimited. You can control anything from an old points distributor to a DIS system and everything in between. I usually go all or nothing. If I am going to go electronic timing control, I'd rather go all out and ditch the distributor.
I actually have mine setup as DIS. I made a custom 36-1 tooth crank target wheel (you can buy these through Holley for most setups), and used an Accel distributor for a 90s TBI I believe that has the cam sensor in it just for phasing. However, this comes with a block off cap and not an actual distributor cap, so it doesn't have a cap or rotor, it just sends a cam sync signal and drives the oil pump.
Here is the GM version:
https://www.eficonnection.com/home/...tor-1x-signal-for-4-3l-v6-sbc-and-bbc-engines
However, it's a lot easier if you have an LS, old small block, or Gen6 big block, because you can use the factory GM cam sync kit that includes a timing cover and cam timing set that has sensors built into it for both cam and crank, such as this...
DIS Conversion Kit
The DIS allows you to have unlimited timing without worrying about rotor phasing, or parts wearing out. Crank triggers also eliminate the error you get from sending the timing through the timing chain and cam and cam distributor gear. The timing is rock solid, way more solid than you ever see without a crank trigger, you notice when you sync the ECU to the actual engine timing with a timing light.
Once you do that conversion kit, you could buy the terminator LS kit (which comes with an HP or Dominator ECU), and plug and play, assuming you get the correct 58x or 24x harness along with the correct injector harness, etc. The ECUs that come with the terminator kits are actually the same exact HP or Dominator ECUs(depending on if you get DBW or trans control), so if the little handheld doesn't have enough options for you, you just plug in your laptop and you have nearly limitless options. And its considerably cheaper than buying the dominator ECU separate.
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So if I'm reading this right, using that kit and some type of a multi-point injection manifold, it's possible to run a big block off of an LS style pcm and harness?
beags86
Eastbound and Down
I can't speak to it as well as Heath can. But I believe he was only talking about the Holley ECMs. I don't know about the factory harness but I wouldn't think the factory harness would work with a holley ecm either.
Ah, he mentioned using it along with an LS Terminator, I guess I jumped to a conclusion. I can never keep track of the different reluctors and tooth counts, and which uses what.
beags86
Eastbound and Down
I don't know what it's worth to ya, and Heath can help you far more then I can. But I do plan on running with coil on plug and a mutiport EFI set up on my engine. (If I ever get it done)
Heath has already done one. (There are pictures buried in his truck build thread of his big block.
Mine won't be nearly as complex as his is. And I am not shooting for nearly as much power as he has. But yes, you can build a old big block to have some of the same tech as the newer engines out there.
Well I'll just continue following along with your thread as I have. Even at the current rate, you are sure to get things done much sooner than me, lol.
beags86
Eastbound and Down
I'm at a crossroads with it. I really enjoy it the way it is. Fun to drive without having to worry about it. But it's not fast enough to have the stop light to stop light burnout fun that makes me feel like I'm 16 again.
I haven't spent hardly a dime on it in two years, and spent even less time working it. Even though it needs some basic stuff done to it.
2018 was a super tough year for us, had some financial issues, family issues, and some personal health stuff to. And on top of it my damn dog died. (We had to put him down after losing the battle with cancer) so honestly this truck was the last thing on my mind.
Then towards the end of the year I made of mistake of getting a Chevelle.
Like I need more shit.
Who know what 2019 brings. Maybe a 496 BBC or Maybe more neglect.
Don’t forget you had a kid too!
beags86
Eastbound and Down
I didn't miss it, I said I didn't need more shit.
Just messing, but yes, the last month has been fun.
And also why the Chevelle will definitely be getting more love.
It's just up in the air how much love the truck gets.
Maybe the truck will turn into a father daughter project.
