Lacquer thinner will remove it when you're ready.
Brake parts cleaner.
CK5
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'72 K5 - Greg's @MightAsWellK5 Build
- Thread starter Greg72
- Start date
This is the build description. I will improve this later. (GB)
Brake parts cleaner.
We use red at work and I like it. Then again that's all they've ever supplied so I don't know any different. 
2 cans of spray blue arrived yesterday...
woodchk502
1/2 ton status
As I'm sure most know: there is also a brush on type for doing smaller areas for less waste and cleanup. Looks like that is what in Ryokens previous post. Only in purple
Jim
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not to derail too much, but it was this thread that got me going on it....
yeah, I was torn between the brush on and spray, even tho I think Greg uses the brush on, I felt the spray may be better for me and the projects I do... at some point I'll pick up a bottle of brush on too, so I have the choice...
yeah, I was torn between the brush on and spray, even tho I think Greg uses the brush on, I felt the spray may be better for me and the projects I do... at some point I'll pick up a bottle of brush on too, so I have the choice...
2013.03.04 - UPDATE! - DYE'ING TO CHANGE THE SUBJECT...
OK, I think we all know as much as we can possibly know now about Dykem and solvents.... Time to move along.
I put my safety goggles back on and did a bunch of finish welding and grinding on all the remaining seams and miscellaneous holes in the new frame section.
Outside view
Inside frame view:
While I had the engine out, I decided to patch the driver side rail where I'd cut it for header clearance... You will remember that I removed about 8" of the inside top corner. Now it's as if it never happened.
Everything is complete enough for reassembly, so I laid down a fresh coat of Ryoken Green...
I dropped the engine back in place, but of course only the DS motor mount worked. It was time to build a new PS motormount (feels like about the 4th iteration of motor mounts). It sits substantially higher than the drivers side now with the taller framerail, so the shape is completely different than before.
Sorry for the washed-out photo, not sure what happened there.
I wanted to get a final shot of the axle in the fully-stuffed position, but ran out of time/energy. I'll do that next time.
-G
OK, I think we all know as much as we can possibly know now about Dykem and solvents.... Time to move along.
I put my safety goggles back on and did a bunch of finish welding and grinding on all the remaining seams and miscellaneous holes in the new frame section.
Outside view
Inside frame view:
While I had the engine out, I decided to patch the driver side rail where I'd cut it for header clearance... You will remember that I removed about 8" of the inside top corner. Now it's as if it never happened.
Everything is complete enough for reassembly, so I laid down a fresh coat of Ryoken Green...
I dropped the engine back in place, but of course only the DS motor mount worked. It was time to build a new PS motormount (feels like about the 4th iteration of motor mounts). It sits substantially higher than the drivers side now with the taller framerail, so the shape is completely different than before.
Sorry for the washed-out photo, not sure what happened there.
I wanted to get a final shot of the axle in the fully-stuffed position, but ran out of time/energy. I'll do that next time.
-G
Looking great, Greg... 
I like your little catch phrase.. "Like it never Happened"..
I like your little catch phrase.. "Like it never Happened"..
Yep.
Some people seem to get really uncomfortable with the idea of cutting and replacing metal....as if it's some sort of sacrilege to disturb the original molecules of metal in any way.
I'm over it.
As my skills get better I'm finding that it's getting easier to "hide" the fact that I've ever made a modification... whether it's a frame splice or a sheetmetal repair. I would love to eventually become so accomplished that I could shrink and stretch metal into a perfect final shape without needing a single ounce of body filler. Someday perhaps...
For now, I reached a new "milestone" in my journey. For the first time ever I burned through an entire 11-Lb spool of welding wire! My smaller Lincoln 175+ wouldn't even hold a spool that size, so I wasn't able to even use an 11 pounder until I traded up to the bigger Lincoln 255. I have to say that I've gained a substantial amount of extra experience from the beginning of that spool until the end. It's really true that welding is all about practice....and the more wire you are feeding off the spool and into the weld puddle, the more you are learning and improving.
I'm on my second 11Lb'er now, and can't wait to see how much further along this project is by the time this one finally runs out.
-G
Some people seem to get really uncomfortable with the idea of cutting and replacing metal....as if it's some sort of sacrilege to disturb the original molecules of metal in any way.
I'm over it.
As my skills get better I'm finding that it's getting easier to "hide" the fact that I've ever made a modification... whether it's a frame splice or a sheetmetal repair. I would love to eventually become so accomplished that I could shrink and stretch metal into a perfect final shape without needing a single ounce of body filler. Someday perhaps...
For now, I reached a new "milestone" in my journey. For the first time ever I burned through an entire 11-Lb spool of welding wire! My smaller Lincoln 175+ wouldn't even hold a spool that size, so I wasn't able to even use an 11 pounder until I traded up to the bigger Lincoln 255. I have to say that I've gained a substantial amount of extra experience from the beginning of that spool until the end. It's really true that welding is all about practice....and the more wire you are feeding off the spool and into the weld puddle, the more you are learning and improving.
I'm on my second 11Lb'er now, and can't wait to see how much further along this project is by the time this one finally runs out.
-G
I'm on my third big spool on the K5... 
looks good, and an outstanding solution to a prob...
looks good, and an outstanding solution to a prob...
It looks good Greg, I like the water drain coming out of your tie rod end!
Seriously though, you have plenty of frame clearance now and it looks good.
When I saw that pic I made my periodic mistake of trying to rotate the picture (I work with CAD every day so I do that every so often).
Is it possible for the header to go around that motor mount? Can that mount be on the inside of the frame or is the upper link in the way?
And how many 2 lb spools did you use before that? Because I can't believe you've done all you did with only one 11 lb spool.
Seriously though, you have plenty of frame clearance now and it looks good.
When I saw that pic I made my periodic mistake of trying to rotate the picture (I work with CAD every day so I do that every so often).
Is it possible for the header to go around that motor mount? Can that mount be on the inside of the frame or is the upper link in the way?
And how many 2 lb spools did you use before that? Because I can't believe you've done all you did with only one 11 lb spool.
It seems like the header ports are pretty equally spaced on either side of the motor mount, so for an outboard header it shouldn't be an issue. Since the upper link was in the way of the motor mounts originally, I relocated them both to the top of the framerail (for symmetry more than anything else). Given that the PS framerail is a lot higher now, I probably could move that mount down to the inside of the framerail (that would be motor mount revision #6!)....and that would give me a bit more room for the exhaust ports. Maybe. Let me get the axle at full-stuff and see where that upper link is relative to the "new" framerail. I wouldn't mind moving it since it's sitting on a curved section of framerail anyway, and I'd still need to build a beveled mount if I leave it in the current spot. Either way it's a bit more work, but I'm getting really good at motor mount fabrication! 
No idea how many 2Lb spools I've been through since the project started.....surely at least 2 or 3. But back in those days it was a lot more sheetmetal "tack tack tack" type stuff which doesn't use much wire. All this suspension and thick metal fabrication really gets the wire humming off the spool...
-G
No idea how many 2Lb spools I've been through since the project started.....surely at least 2 or 3. But back in those days it was a lot more sheetmetal "tack tack tack" type stuff which doesn't use much wire. All this suspension and thick metal fabrication really gets the wire humming off the spool...
-G
Quick Update:
Got the axle up to "full stuff" and snapped a pic of the PS motor mount for Heath. I don't think there's any practical way to move that down to the inside of the framerail after all...
Also spent a substantial amount of time struggling with the placement of the PHB. The available space over the top of the front 3rd member is impossibly small, and I just can't spend any more time trying to make that work. I'm taking a second look at mounting the PHB bracket below the lower link on the passenger side. The angle of the PHB is quite a bit steeper in this configuration but I'm sure I can make this angle work when I build the steering box / custom steering arm / draglink setup.
I actually had this working with a completely straight PHB at the "full stuff" setting (where I built it) but as I dropped the axle down to actual ride height the bar hit the reinforcing ribs on the 3rd. Looks like I'll need to put at least one bend just below the front pinion to get clearance under all conditions...
PS. This axle is getting pretty heavy now. It's not like the old days where I could just cycle the empty housing and quickly check clearances. It's definitely a lot more effort and my ratchet straps are probably close to their safety limits. I really need to come up with a safer way to move the axle up and down.....
-G
Got the axle up to "full stuff" and snapped a pic of the PS motor mount for Heath. I don't think there's any practical way to move that down to the inside of the framerail after all...
Also spent a substantial amount of time struggling with the placement of the PHB. The available space over the top of the front 3rd member is impossibly small, and I just can't spend any more time trying to make that work. I'm taking a second look at mounting the PHB bracket below the lower link on the passenger side. The angle of the PHB is quite a bit steeper in this configuration but I'm sure I can make this angle work when I build the steering box / custom steering arm / draglink setup.
I actually had this working with a completely straight PHB at the "full stuff" setting (where I built it) but as I dropped the axle down to actual ride height the bar hit the reinforcing ribs on the 3rd. Looks like I'll need to put at least one bend just below the front pinion to get clearance under all conditions...
PS. This axle is getting pretty heavy now. It's not like the old days where I could just cycle the empty housing and quickly check clearances. It's definitely a lot more effort and my ratchet straps are probably close to their safety limits. I really need to come up with a safer way to move the axle up and down.....
-G
Engine hoist.
If ya used the bench press for working out instead of a workbench, I doubt there would be a problem. 
"Smack talk via a keyboard from a fat guy eating cheese and crackers thinking about lunch."
"Smack talk via a keyboard from a fat guy eating cheese and crackers thinking about lunch."
Whats your roll axis with your panhard there?
No idea yet.
At this point I'm just trying to make it fit "somewhere" without major issues.... Once I find a place that works, I'll pull measurements from it and plug them into the 3-Link Calculator to see how bad it is.
-G
2013.03.12 - UPDATE! - FAIL.......
The "low mount" rear PHB turned out to be a total FAIL.
Conceptually, it seemed like the mount would work and be strong enough. The severe angle of the PHB was a bit of a concern because I'd have to match it when I designed and built my crossover draglink... but I figured since I was building a custom set of steering arms, I could simply put them wherever they needed to on the knuckles.
So I put a 20* bend in the draglink to give me the clearance around the 3rd member, set the ride height and got the axle centered VERY carefully and accurately, then put a few tack welds on the PHB to lock the dimensions in place. It definitely helps to build the mock-up PHB with a slipjoint tube.... a couple tacks are easy to cut if you need to change the dimensions slightly.
Anyway, it took all of 2 seconds to see that trouble was brewing. I started cycling the suspension starting on the drivers side and didn't get more than 2" of bump before the upper link tower crashed HARD into the new framerail.
I lowered the DS and tried a few other combinations of bump and droop..... and after about an hour of misery I came to the conclusion that the low-mount PHB was never going to work right. The length of the bar was quite good (around 37" IIRC) but the angle at ride height was killing me. The PHB "grew" so much as the axle was moved upwards that the axle shift into the passenger side framerail was terrible... probably 2" of lateral shift in less than 6" of bump travel.
Unacceptable.
I was just about to throw in the towel last night out of frustration, when I had a moment of inspiration. "I wonder if that PHB bracket setup is symmetrical, and could be flipped to the front side of the knuckle instead?"
Check it out!
All the holes lined up perfectly, and the clearances were great. I didn't have to grind of modify anything to get it to bolt into place...
The main concern I'd always had with a front-mounted PHB is the clearance it would require to clear the pumpkin and upper link mount bracket. I didn't think there would be any way to put it up there without an ENORMOUS offset bracket, and I didn't think there would be any way to build it strong enough to avoid being snapped off under actual driving loads.
Once I threw the PHB on the flipped bracket, it became clear that I had PLENTY of clearance around the upper link bracket, so I threw a thick stack of washers behind the heim to simulate how much I could cut-down the bracket and still maintain the necessary clearances.
As you can see, I should be able to shorten that bracket by at least 1" and still be fine (the green taped part is my homemade "wobble stopper", I need to find a real source for those! ).
Here's the final shot from the DS that shows the overall layout of the bar relative to the upper link bracket, etc. (The PHB is bent, but obviously with this configuration it can actually be a perfectly straight bar).
Coincendentally, this ends up using very similar mounting points (z-height) on the axle and frame side as my very early PHB design when I was attempting to go over the top of the 3rd member. The PencilCAD data on this one shows that the axle shift under bump is minimal (maybe 1/4" toward the PS framerail under bump) and 1-1/2" toward the DS at full droop (both sides down).
The nice part about this one is that the frameside mount has nothing in the way of it, no link brackets, etc. So I can probably push it pretty far out there and really maximize the length of the PHB. I've got a lot of flexibility with the z-height of that PHB bracket too, so I can fine-tune that once I have a clearer sense of how the crossover draglink angle is going to end up.
So I guess, the night started off as a pretty frustrating time but ultimately ended up with a better plan to move forward.
-G
The "low mount" rear PHB turned out to be a total FAIL.
Conceptually, it seemed like the mount would work and be strong enough. The severe angle of the PHB was a bit of a concern because I'd have to match it when I designed and built my crossover draglink... but I figured since I was building a custom set of steering arms, I could simply put them wherever they needed to on the knuckles.
So I put a 20* bend in the draglink to give me the clearance around the 3rd member, set the ride height and got the axle centered VERY carefully and accurately, then put a few tack welds on the PHB to lock the dimensions in place. It definitely helps to build the mock-up PHB with a slipjoint tube.... a couple tacks are easy to cut if you need to change the dimensions slightly.
Anyway, it took all of 2 seconds to see that trouble was brewing. I started cycling the suspension starting on the drivers side and didn't get more than 2" of bump before the upper link tower crashed HARD into the new framerail.
I lowered the DS and tried a few other combinations of bump and droop..... and after about an hour of misery I came to the conclusion that the low-mount PHB was never going to work right. The length of the bar was quite good (around 37" IIRC) but the angle at ride height was killing me. The PHB "grew" so much as the axle was moved upwards that the axle shift into the passenger side framerail was terrible... probably 2" of lateral shift in less than 6" of bump travel. Unacceptable.
I was just about to throw in the towel last night out of frustration, when I had a moment of inspiration. "I wonder if that PHB bracket setup is symmetrical, and could be flipped to the front side of the knuckle instead?"
Check it out!
All the holes lined up perfectly, and the clearances were great. I didn't have to grind of modify anything to get it to bolt into place...
The main concern I'd always had with a front-mounted PHB is the clearance it would require to clear the pumpkin and upper link mount bracket. I didn't think there would be any way to put it up there without an ENORMOUS offset bracket, and I didn't think there would be any way to build it strong enough to avoid being snapped off under actual driving loads.
Once I threw the PHB on the flipped bracket, it became clear that I had PLENTY of clearance around the upper link bracket, so I threw a thick stack of washers behind the heim to simulate how much I could cut-down the bracket and still maintain the necessary clearances.
As you can see, I should be able to shorten that bracket by at least 1" and still be fine (the green taped part is my homemade "wobble stopper", I need to find a real source for those!
). Here's the final shot from the DS that shows the overall layout of the bar relative to the upper link bracket, etc. (The PHB is bent, but obviously with this configuration it can actually be a perfectly straight bar).
Coincendentally, this ends up using very similar mounting points (z-height) on the axle and frame side as my very early PHB design when I was attempting to go over the top of the 3rd member. The PencilCAD data on this one shows that the axle shift under bump is minimal (maybe 1/4" toward the PS framerail under bump) and 1-1/2" toward the DS at full droop (both sides down).
The nice part about this one is that the frameside mount has nothing in the way of it, no link brackets, etc. So I can probably push it pretty far out there and really maximize the length of the PHB. I've got a lot of flexibility with the z-height of that PHB bracket too, so I can fine-tune that once I have a clearer sense of how the crossover draglink angle is going to end up.
So I guess, the night started off as a pretty frustrating time but ultimately ended up with a better plan to move forward.
-G
BONUS FOOTAGE...!
I think it can be fun to put this build thread in some sort of context with the rest of my life from time to time.... My little boy Charlie (aka "Danger") just keeps growing and growing and he is learning new things every day.
These days, he's really into coloring with crayons. We got him a new set of washable markers (they really WORK!) and sat him down at the table for a drawing session.
You guys have seen Chip Foose do his famous "renderings" before of a project vehicle. Just a few markers and some time spent can really help give a clearer sense of where the project is headed and what it will ultimately look like.... it can also increase motivation once you see what the final result will be.
So I asked Charlie to draw a picture of daddy's truck and this is what he came up with....
I guess I should have been more specific. "Don't draw it the way it looks NOW.... draw it the way it's supposed to look when its all finished"
-G
I think it can be fun to put this build thread in some sort of context with the rest of my life from time to time.... My little boy Charlie (aka "Danger") just keeps growing and growing and he is learning new things every day.
These days, he's really into coloring with crayons. We got him a new set of washable markers (they really WORK!) and sat him down at the table for a drawing session.
You guys have seen Chip Foose do his famous "renderings" before of a project vehicle. Just a few markers and some time spent can really help give a clearer sense of where the project is headed and what it will ultimately look like.... it can also increase motivation once you see what the final result will be.
So I asked Charlie to draw a picture of daddy's truck and this is what he came up with....
I guess I should have been more specific. "Don't draw it the way it looks NOW.... draw it the way it's supposed to look when its all finished"
-G
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I don't get it, I thought the phb was done
