Wow Luke! 
CK5
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76 CCDRW...Cummins noises
- Thread starter 76zimmer
- Start date
I understand that setting the timing by the plunger lift measurement is the most accurate way of doing it. I haven't found much info on the subject, but wondered what the process is and what special tools are needed to achieve that?
DEMON44
Low-Tech Redneck
It's very easy.
DEMON44
Low-Tech Redneck
There is a timing kit. Blue point makes one. I'm sure others do to. But I have the Blue Point.
It uses a metric dial indicator. Cummins plunger lift charts are listed in millimetres. You'll get a delivery valve socket. delivery valve holder adapter to put the dial into. A turning tool to bar the engine over with.
Finding TDC with the plastic plunger is not good enough. There's a couple different ways to do that. But you need absolute TDC and correctly split piston dwell.
If your using an adjustable pump gear use the manufacture chart to set the gear. Once gear is timed to gear train at TDC. Set it and forget it.
It uses a metric dial indicator. Cummins plunger lift charts are listed in millimetres. You'll get a delivery valve socket. delivery valve holder adapter to put the dial into. A turning tool to bar the engine over with.
Finding TDC with the plastic plunger is not good enough. There's a couple different ways to do that. But you need absolute TDC and correctly split piston dwell.
If your using an adjustable pump gear use the manufacture chart to set the gear. Once gear is timed to gear train at TDC. Set it and forget it.
OK, that means using a degree wheel, and finding a piston stop to put in through the injector hole?
And I should go to 16* as well for my 180hp/CPL2174 engine (factory timing 14*)?
And I should go to 16* as well for my 180hp/CPL2174 engine (factory timing 14*)?
DEMON44
Low-Tech Redneck
I use the valves on #1. It's very quick. Crank the adjuster down and SLOWLY bar the engine over till it touches the valve. Mark damper. Roll other way until touch valve the other way. Mark damper. Split that difference is absolute TDC. Reset the valve then.
DEMON44
Low-Tech Redneck
If 14deg is stock thats 4.53mm plunger lift on that pump.
I would run more timing than that personally.
16.5deg is 5.0mm plunger lift.
I'll be running my own engine at 20degrees.
I would run more timing than that personally.
16.5deg is 5.0mm plunger lift.
I'll be running my own engine at 20degrees.
awesome!
great instructions thanks Luke!
I got the idea, just not the details!
So 16-16.5 is where I want to be for my towing app then @ ~1800-2000rpm cruise....what kind of rpm do you expect to be running on yours?
DEMON44
Low-Tech Redneck
Ya 1900-2000 is ideal. No more than 2000 cruising.
Just read through your thread Dave, big changes are about to happen 
Luke, does this procedure sound good?
http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/94-98-engine/257870-timing-40-minutes-12-valve-2nd-gen-engine.html
http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/94-98-engine/257870-timing-40-minutes-12-valve-2nd-gen-engine.html
DEMON44
Low-Tech Redneck
Sure that sort of covers the bases. It's more of a Q and A session than a procedure though. It's all good in theory to turn the pump with the engine then pull the gear and set the engine back to TDC. But if it was done right before. Popping the pump gear is a very violent release and the pump ALWAYS moves. So you end up having to turn the pump a bit by the snout anyways.
great, my brother is coming up from NC and he can get the tools to do this...he just keeps asking me "why are you messing with it, it makes enough power as is"...he works on stock heavy equipment and don't get into modifying them at all...they send ALL of their pump work out to a pump shop, so it will be a new foray for him as well.
I told him there is power left laying on the table in stock form and I want to pick it up!
so I will be going with 16.5* on the pump timing, with the adjustable gear, and doing the 3K gov springs (or should I go 4K for my application?)
Should I be doing the fuel plate right now or wait til I get it running/driving again to measure results of the mods?
Will be going 4" from the turbo back, and the BHAF as well.
I told him there is power left laying on the table in stock form and I want to pick it up!
so I will be going with 16.5* on the pump timing, with the adjustable gear, and doing the 3K gov springs (or should I go 4K for my application?)
Should I be doing the fuel plate right now or wait til I get it running/driving again to measure results of the mods?
Will be going 4" from the turbo back, and the BHAF as well.
DEMON44
Low-Tech Redneck
4kgsk would be fine. Te only difference in a 3k to 4k kit is the inner spring. But yes get the 4k kit. It's nice to have the rpm band there.
The kit I got has both in it! I'll put in the 4K springs.
So engine seems to be in great shape overall...about 166K mi. on it...going to replace most gaskets, and rear seal while its on the stand, maybe throw a paint job at it too.
Should I mess with the fueling plate/star wheel right now or wait til I have it running/driving?
So engine seems to be in great shape overall...about 166K mi. on it...going to replace most gaskets, and rear seal while its on the stand, maybe throw a paint job at it too.
Should I mess with the fueling plate/star wheel right now or wait til I have it running/driving?
DEMON44
Low-Tech Redneck
You can adjust the plate and star wheel now if you want to. But you'll want to be fine tuning it while it's a driver. The amount of low boost defueling is a personal preference anyways.
what I would do though is make sure you measure the stud protrusion on the spring BEFORE you take it apart. And set it back to the same measurement after you change the springs. Counting "clicks" is sketchy. Because at the top of the stud the clicks get softer and softer.
Don't drop any shims off the bottom of the spring into the governor housing. It's not that big a deal with the engine out. You can easily take the side cover off and go fishing. But Its a real pain if you do it in the truck.
Plus personally I cut all plates into zero plates. Because I want more control with my foot and less control taken away from me by the governor. Again just personal preference. Plus grinding a zero plate is free.
what I would do though is make sure you measure the stud protrusion on the spring BEFORE you take it apart. And set it back to the same measurement after you change the springs. Counting "clicks" is sketchy. Because at the top of the stud the clicks get softer and softer.
Don't drop any shims off the bottom of the spring into the governor housing. It's not that big a deal with the engine out. You can easily take the side cover off and go fishing. But Its a real pain if you do it in the truck.
Plus personally I cut all plates into zero plates. Because I want more control with my foot and less control taken away from me by the governor. Again just personal preference. Plus grinding a zero plate is free.
I've watched a few videos on this....I get what your saying...I planned on using a dial caliper on its end to make that measurement with. I think Josh used an empty can around the gov to make sure nothing escaped while changing the springs.
And move the plate in which direction, and how much from where it is stock?
DEMON44
Low-Tech Redneck
76 CrewCab Dually, 11/14 timing plunger lift????
Yes the end of a caliper is a good enough depth guage. Top of the stud to the flat of the washer.
I use a long slim screwdriver touching the top of the stud and a magnet to draw the parts up around it. Just go slow and make sure the shims stay in the seat and not stuck to the spring is all.
I'm probably not the best guy to get moderate fueling options from lol.
You can slide the whole AFC housing forward. And then slide the plate further forward than you could before.
Then when that's not enough fuel anymore. I'll show you how to rack the barrels. And put a rack plug in it.
Yes the end of a caliper is a good enough depth guage. Top of the stud to the flat of the washer.
I use a long slim screwdriver touching the top of the stud and a magnet to draw the parts up around it. Just go slow and make sure the shims stay in the seat and not stuck to the spring is all.
I'm probably not the best guy to get moderate fueling options from lol.
You can slide the whole AFC housing forward. And then slide the plate further forward than you could before.
Then when that's not enough fuel anymore. I'll show you how to rack the barrels. And put a rack plug in it.
Got the engine somewhat on a stand now, going to have to make supports for the front....just seems like too much hanging out there to not support it better than just at the head of the engine stand....
We took the Pump off and over to the bench to work on it...got the Snap-on kit to set up the pump timing, and also a depth mic to set up the gov springs, seems the caliper method just wasn't as precise, so I made a sleeve to set against the retainer nut, and measured down through it to the top of the gov. stud. subtracted the difference of the length of the sleeve, and was right at the .050 it should be at according to the PAC instructions. Marked the stud to the nut and took it off being careful to not drop anything in the pump housing.
Replaced the 3 inner springs and their seats with the new seat and springs in the kit, simple enough.
We took the Pump off and over to the bench to work on it...got the Snap-on kit to set up the pump timing, and also a depth mic to set up the gov springs, seems the caliper method just wasn't as precise, so I made a sleeve to set against the retainer nut, and measured down through it to the top of the gov. stud. subtracted the difference of the length of the sleeve, and was right at the .050 it should be at according to the PAC instructions. Marked the stud to the nut and took it off being careful to not drop anything in the pump housing.
Replaced the 3 inner springs and their seats with the new seat and springs in the kit, simple enough.
