77K5. The IronMaiden...9/2 headed for Blazer Bash 20!

[kellyjohn]

Lug nuts

The long nuts you have currently on the dodge diesel doner have the tapered seat and are perfect for the steel Beadlocks

You could get 1 long stud to do a trial fit if you are worried about any chance of the nut bottoming out on the stud shoulder.?

We didn't have any issues with Kelly's wheel and stud combo.

 

[76zimmer]

I'm not talking about thread engagement, I'm talking about how far the nut shank (the part inside the wheel). If the shank is longer than the wheel is thick then the nut will bottom out on the hub before clamping the wheel. The shanks are available in different lengths. Also the steel vs aluminum wheels will need different style nuts.

I got that
I'm sure the stock (GM) studs that came with the hubs won't bottom out with the picture lugnuts, but also need to be sure they are long enough to provide enough thread engagement!

Wouldn't the beadlocks probably just use standard acorn style lugnuts? I'd just find some good, regular lug nuts and run those for the beadlocks.

I have a set of tapered seat, open lugnuts for the beadlocks already and with the thinner wheel flange (I think Kert used 3/8") these studs as well as the open tapered seat lugnuts will work great.

The long nuts you have currently on the dodge diesel doner have the tapered seat and are perfect for the steel Beadlocks

You could get 1 long stud to do a trial fit if you are worried about any chance of the nut bottoming out on the stud shoulder.?

We didn't have any issues with Kelly's wheel and stud combo.

I did pick up one of the 3.5" long studs to do some trial fitting...I need to order the lugnuts (McGard) to do some fitting to check for interference, and zero in on the right combo!

 

[76zimmer]

checked a few thinigs out this AM before taking the transfer cases/ and transmission out....the skid was tight against the 205 on the front output side...I thought it may have tilted the 205 up on that side....maybe 1/4" at most by measurements.
The skid is welded where the trans plate is mated to the main skid....and that trans plate is bolted to the torque convertor cover with two bolts....any chance this could keep the whole t/c and trans combo from moving with the engine as it torques?
The engine is poly mounted with Kerts engine mounts.
The rear doubler mounts look like they are pretty evenly compressed side to side with the skid in place....

 

[76zimmer]

more pics of mounting and the skid

 

[kellyjohn]

Unfortunately it sounds like the culprit....

With all the info you have gathered Dave,
I think the skidplate being connected to the trani may not have allowed for drivetrain movement when the engine torqued under acceleration.

As I said before "I feel terible about it".

The combination of the pressure on the transfercase from the main plate and tie in with the transmition wouldn't have left any space for twist from the torque of the engine....

I'd be happy to come back down and help with the repairs.

We would probably leave the trucks home and make the trip on the bike.

 

[76zimmer]

Hey John, please don't worry about this...I would have mounted it that way whether you and Kert were here or not....I just didn't get to it before last weekend.

I also noticed today upon dis-assembly of the drivetrain that the bell housing bolts that hold the t/c cover on...4 of the holes are broken out....I can't say positively that this happened from the plate being bolted to the cover, but it falls in line with not allowing the trans to twist with the engine torque....seem feasible?

I will try to get the skids mounted in such a way that they do not touch the drivetrain at all, but will still protect it from rocks.
Also the poly bushings I used to mount the transfer cases (mounted at the trans adapter and the 203 bottom and the rear of the 205) all are of the shock absorber type...about 1" in diameter and 5/8" thick before compression...do those seem sufficient?
I hadn't noticed any issues related to breakage before these skids were put on, so I'm thinking my mounting system was working well before becoming too rigid and preloaded with twist in the opposite direction of engine torque, from the skid plates touching the 205, and the trans skid being mounted to the torque convertor cover.

How about adding a torque control rod (spherical ends and adjustable link) to the block to prevent engine torque movement?

Thoughts?

 

[kellyjohn]

Te existing mounts look good

Your photos show very clear detail regarding your mounts.
They look very good to me.
There should be equal allowance for movement of the engine and drivetrain, with the mounts you already have .
I wouldn't change a thing, except for the skid-plate.
It would probably be a good idea to space it away from the t case and not mount it to the drivetrain at any point.
If it's attached to the frame alone there is no possible way it can affect the transmition.

You are taking this issue very well...Sir!

 

[Slapperbar]

Your mounts aren't mixed are they? ie poly trans and case w/ rubber engine? That would let the engine flex a LOT more than the rest of the drivetrain.
To answer your question solid mount the engine is my opinion if poly all around..

 

[76zimmer]

everything is poly....the transfer cases are mounted on the factory holes in the bottom of the adapter and the 203...the 205 is mounted by a bracket with a narrower bolt pattern than the 203's. so maximum width mounting is probably 8" on the doubler.

This is the basic cradle configuration for mounting the adapter, the 203 doubler adapter and the rear of the 205. the bushings on the side are also poly and attach to the frame....poly at the cradle, bolted rigidly to the frame rails (boxed frame)

 

[Slapperbar]

So the question is, what are the engine mounts?

 

[76zimmer]

So the question is, what are the engine mounts?

see below....

checked a few thinigs out this AM before taking the transfer cases/ and transmission out....the skid was tight against the 205 on the front output side...I thought it may have tilted the 205 up on that side....maybe 1/4" at most by measurements.
The skid is welded where the trans plate is mated to the main skid....and that trans plate is bolted to the torque convertor cover with two bolts....any chance this could keep the whole t/c and trans combo from moving with the engine as it torques?
The engine is poly mounted with Kerts competition engine mounts.
The rear doubler mounts look like they are pretty evenly compressed side to side with the skid in place....

everything is poly mounted.

 

[76zimmer]

back to the wheels...
the lugnut shank bore is .865, and the closest shank size I can find is .800
leaving a gap of .0325 around the lugnut...and the shank bore is only .630 deep.

Here is the closest nut I can find to fit those dimensions....

is the .0325 gap something to be concerned about?

 

[Slapperbar]

see below....

everything is poly mounted.

Sorry, missed that.

 

[76zimmer]

trans is out....seems being wedged between the engine and doubler held it together along with a couple pan bolts and the governor housing!

 

[Slapperbar]

The benefits of a cast pan are proven.

 

[woodchk502]

Broken parts = suck.

Hopefully you're back up and runnin shortly.

jim

 

[76zimmer]

Broken parts = suck.

Hopefully you're back up and runnin shortly.

jim

should be a couple weeks Jim!

Who is it that makes a full manual valve body with reverse pattern AND engine braking?

 

[kgblazerfive]

So here is my two cents

You have two poly mounting places for the mount so in theory the trans and tcase can move twice as much as the engine ?

However that theory only works if it was moving and it came into contact with something that would not let it move farther.'

You can really run rubber trans mounts with poly engine mounts just cant do it the other way. The trans needs to be able to move as much as the engine is, if it cant that is when you have issues.

 

[kellyjohn]

TCI Dave

should be a couple weeks Jim!

Who is it that makes a full manual valve body with reverse pattern AND engine braking?

The reverse shift valve body I run is a TCI for the 700R4 with
engine breaking and lockup torque converter kicks in from 2nd gear on.

 

[kellyjohn]

That's not including the skid plate install.....

So here is my two cents

You have two poly mounting places for the mount so in theory the trans and tcase can move twice as much as the engine ?

However that theory only works if it was moving and it came into contact with something that would not let it move farther.'

You can really run rubber trans mounts with poly engine mounts just cant do it the other way. The trans needs to be able to move as much as the engine is, if it cant that is when you have issues.

The skid plate was mounted solid to the frame AND to the bell housing on the trani.
The reason it broke is because the engine torqued and the plate was attached to the frame and would not allow for any drivtrain movement

something had to give.

I saw the mounts Dave runs close up and find it hard to believe that it had anything to do with them.