CK5
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While driving under load, once it hits 2k rpms or over 30% throttle it falls over on its face. Let off the throttle a little, it starts to come back to life. I have a grade behind my house and it’s hard to keep it above 45mph up it. I hooked up my scan tool and went back out and found the short fuel trims were hitting as high as -32 on both banks.
If it is indeed running too rich, then isn't -32 STFT a good thing? It's working on leaning itself out. Had you reset the trims before that? I don't remember clearing codes resetting that, but disconnecting the battery does and I think there's an option in the VCM scanner.
 
If it is indeed running too rich, then isn't -32 STFT a good thing? It's working on leaning itself out. Had you reset the trims before that? I don't remember clearing codes resetting that, but disconnecting the battery does and I think there's an option in the VCM scanner.

I reset the PCM twice over the past few days by unplugging the battery. Long Trims maintain in the 8 to 10 range. Shorts are close to zero until I drive it and they jump to the big negative numbers when the engine falls on its face (under load and any throttle over 15-20%).

ECT’s appear normal between 195 and 210. At 210 the electric fan kicks in (PCM controlled) and it drops back down to 200.

IAT has been in the high 90’s.

All this talk about HP Tuners has me wondering if I should pick one up and datalog the events so I can get better feedback.
 
If all you want to do is datalog, there are much cheaper options.

Actually, it would be very interesting to see time-based plots of the O2 signals. You can do that with something cheap, like Torque and an Elm327.
 
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What I'm wondering is if your O2 signals are getting corrupted. Vac leak, exhaust leak, misfire - those all make it read lean. -32 is maybe the maximum value possible, which implies that the O2 voltage has gone high and the ECM can't cut fuel enough to get the sensor back to 1/2V transitions. Perhaps the sensors aren't grounded well or too much ground is shared with your ignition coils. Maybe there is too much EMI off the ignition system or the there's a missing ground strap.

If your tune is really good, you can practically run without O2 sensors, at least for troubleshooting.

Other than the above things, to go rich for real means bad data or bad math. Where did the base file come from? I think it's possible to have a MAP sensor mismatch. IIRC, even some NA applications got 2 bar sensors. If what you have doesn't match what's in the ECM you could potentially have MAP off by a factor of 2. Again, for troubleshooting you can just unplug it. If it runs better without MAP that's a clue. A broken MAP should be obvious with your little scanner. Vac should be high and dip quickly anytime you blip the throttle, then go right back.
 
If all you want to do is datalog, there are much cheaper options.

Actually, it would be very interesting to see time-based plots of the O2 signals. You can do that with something cheap, like Torque and an Elm327.

Right now I just want to datalog however I like the added tuning features of HP Tuners.
 
Does your TPS work right? You must have a stand-alone TPS sensor with your cable throttle. You should be able to see it go smoothly from low to high as you move the throttle, even with the engine off.
 
What I'm wondering is if your O2 signals are getting corrupted. Vac leak, exhaust leak, misfire - those all make it read lean. -32 is maybe the maximum value possible, which implies that the O2 voltage has gone high and the ECM can't cut fuel enough to get the sensor back to 1/2V transitions. Perhaps the sensors aren't grounded well or too much ground is shared with your ignition coils. Maybe there is too much EMI off the ignition system or the there's a missing ground strap.

If your tune is really good, you can practically run without O2 sensors, at least for troubleshooting.

Other than the above things, to go rich for real means bad data or bad math. Where did the base file come from? I think it's possible to have a MAP sensor mismatch. IIRC, even some NA applications got 2 bar sensors. If what you have doesn't match what's in the ECM you could potentially have MAP off by a factor of 2. Again, for troubleshooting you can just unplug it. If it runs better without MAP that's a clue. A broken MAP should be obvious with your little scanner. Vac should be high and dip quickly anytime you blip the throttle, then go right back.

The intake leak is still on the table as a possibility in my mind. Those gaskets, injectors and MAP sensor came with the engine. Everything else is new. The exhaust is not leaking, I've been through it already.

As far as the grounds go, the Howell harness has two, one on the passenger head and the second is on the water neck. Block is grounded to the frame and the battery is grounded to the same point on the block.

The base file is from Howell. I told them it was a stock engine with the smog shit removed and a cable throttle body.

Interesting about the MAP sensor and that's one of the sensor I want to log when the engine falls on it's face. It's within spec at idle at 3.9 psi on my handheld. At least that's what I've read....

Does your TPS work right? You must have a stand-alone TPS sensor with your cable throttle. You should be able to see it go smoothly from low to high as you move the throttle, even with the engine off.

Yes, I have a 454 (L29) cable throttle body and sensors. That was one of the sensors I wanted to watch when the engine falls on it's face. It seemed to be working fine when I rev'd the engine in park.
 
The intake leak is still on the table as a possibility in my mind. Those gaskets, injectors and MAP sensor came with the engine. Everything else is new. The exhaust is not leaking, I've been through it already.

As far as the grounds go, the Howell harness has two, one on the passenger head and the second is on the water neck. Block is grounded to the frame and the battery is grounded to the same point on the block.

The base file is from Howell. I told them it was a stock engine with the smog shit removed and a cable throttle body.

Interesting about the MAP sensor and that's one of the sensor I want to log when the engine falls on it's face. It's within spec at idle at 3.9 psi on my handheld. At least that's what I've read....



Yes, I have a 454 (L29) cable throttle body and sensors. That was one of the sensors I wanted to watch when the engine falls on it's face. It seemed to be working fine when I rev'd the engine in park.
Your recipe is pretty much spot on to mine and Larry’s setup from Howell. More than likely they used the same base tune up that both of ours has. Which mine has been spot on with zero issues. Same as Larry’s in his k10. Interesting enough he’s been chasing an issue on his burb that he felt might be in the tune. He told Howell to use his same tune from the k10. But when all the other things he went through didn’t change it he found a local guy with help tuners and had him download both files of the trucks to compare them. They were not the same. I don’t remember what specifically was different but he had him put the K10 file in the burb. He was fighting a different issue though.

Keep in mind to run the cable throttle the base tube for these comes from an early 6.0 with cable throttle. Every thing is scaled up for the 8.1 for base fuel and timing tables. There was never a 8.1 from Gm with a mechanical throttle body so there is no base tube to go to when the L29 tb is installed they have to go with the 6.0 setup. And since the 8.1 is identical in the ecm/ controls as a LS the dbc conversion works fine.

I guess they could have done something different in the tune for the slush box but since it’s TH400 the ecm don’t have any trans inputs/outputs to worry about so it’s treated like a manual setup anyway. But I’m betting it’s the same tune as mine. As such, it makes me not doubt the tune. The idea of a leaky intake gasket still nags at my brain. It may just be internal in the valley instead of external where the carb cleaner would have found it.
 
What you're describing kinda reminds me a lot of the 2 times I had the Sniper ECU failures. My other thought is what @Blue85 was mentioning, something wrong with the O2 sensors.

I don't think HP Tuners is too costly; might be worth the investment. Or one of the less expensive data logging options @Blue85 also mentioned. If it's something easy to carry, that might come in handy on a future trail run too.
 
Your recipe is pretty much spot on to mine and Larry’s setup from Howell. More than likely they used the same base tune up that both of ours has. Which mine has been spot on with zero issues. Same as Larry’s in his k10. Interesting enough he’s been chasing an issue on his burb that he felt might be in the tune. He told Howell to use his same tune from the k10. But when all the other things he went through didn’t change it he found a local guy with help tuners and had him download both files of the trucks to compare them. They were not the same. I don’t remember what specifically was different but he had him put the K10 file in the burb. He was fighting a different issue though.

Keep in mind to run the cable throttle the base tube for these comes from an early 6.0 with cable throttle. Every thing is scaled up for the 8.1 for base fuel and timing tables. There was never a 8.1 from Gm with a mechanical throttle body so there is no base tube to go to when the L29 tb is installed they have to go with the 6.0 setup. And since the 8.1 is identical in the ecm/ controls as a LS the dbc conversion works fine.

I guess they could have done something different in the tune for the slush box but since it’s TH400 the ecm don’t have any trans inputs/outputs to worry about so it’s treated like a manual setup anyway. But I’m betting it’s the same tune as mine. As such, it makes me not doubt the tune. The idea of a leaky intake gasket still nags at my brain. It may just be internal in the valley instead of external where the carb cleaner would have found it.

Odd about the different tunes that Larry found.

Thanks for the info and I thought about the potential of the intake manifold leak being in the valley too.


What you're describing kinda reminds me a lot of the 2 times I had the Sniper ECU failures. My other thought is what @Blue85 was mentioning, something wrong with the O2 sensors.

I don't think HP Tuners is too costly; might be worth the investment. Or one of the less expensive data logging options @Blue85 also mentioned. If it's something easy to carry, that might come in handy on a future trail run too.

I bought HP tuners this morning with a delivery scheduled for tomorrow. I expect the data-logging will shed some light on the issue when the engine falls on it's face.
 
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HP tuners up and running.

Right away I'm seeing the timing completely laying over from 30 at idle to -5 under load. I'm trying to figure out how to convert the video to a different file type however in the meantime you'll find screenshots from idle to 2800 rpm with 100% throttle.

Idle at the stop light
full


1100rpm as I pull away from the light



full
 
1500 rpms
full


2100rpms note the timing dip
full


2500rpms
full


and 2800rpms @ 100% throttle
full
 
just for giggles against a tune that isn't giving us trouble
from my 94 camaro

check the kPA
1722480490033.png
 
The only time my kPA drops below 20 is on a throttle dump, the timing doesn't retard until that point as you can see
Mine is using the VSS and knock sensors
 
The only time my kPA drops below 20 is on a throttle dump, the timing doesn't retard until that point as you can see
Mine is using the VSS and knock sensors
His kpa looks fine, but why does that spark advance table go negative? I know in a gen v
Virtual torque crap there’s a ton of multipliers that affect timing, but that table appears to be showing actual. Idk
 
His kpa looks fine, but why does that spark advance table go negative? I know in a gen v
Virtual torque crap there’s a ton of multipliers that affect timing, but that table appears to be showing actual. Idk
But his kPA goes negative. IDK but it’s not boosted lol

30 to -5 is some bushi though. That will make it stall and foul plugs for sure
 
I found all kinds of settings on the tuning side but it's all very foreign to me. I'll probably call Howell in the morning and see if they have any ideas. Maybe I can get them to send me another known good PCM to try.

PCM.jpg
 
But his kPA goes negative. IDK but it’s not boosted lol

30 to -5 is some bushi though. That will make it stall and foul plugs for sure
Where are you seeing kpa go negative?
And if it was boosted, kpa would go over 100
 
The only time my kPA drops below 20 is on a throttle dump, the timing doesn't retard until that point as you can see
Mine is using the VSS and knock sensors

and I do have knock sensors btw....and they're hooked up.
 

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