did you ever see if the steering is limited by the steering stops on knuckle before the box is turned max? If so then find a shorter pitman arm.
CK5
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'89 R3500 Crew Cab 2wd to 4wd conversion & beyond
- Thread starter mrk5
- Start date
Started out with 2wd TBI350 with SM465 to current 4wd with 454, 700r4, NP241
One of my pre-trail checks is steering box bolt torque, at least for serious trails or trips like Blazer Bash. I have a theory that's how many cracked frames start.
Yes I did. Your comment rang in my head at one point as I was getting everything buttoned up. I am not limited by the steering box. I have been doing some searching for pitman arm choices but I was looking for shorter drop as opposed to shorter length.
chevysmithz71
1/2 ton status
Trevor at WFO sold me a yj, xy, something jeep and reamed it out for 1ton tie rod. It shortens it just a bit and has way less drop. Maybe give him a call?
Same here too, years ago when I first built the 1st gen K5
Maybe find something in this thread of value? http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/gene...-start-list-oem-lengths-future-reference.html
Thanks for the link Matt. Funny now every time I do a pitman arm search that thread comes up first.
I did some more measuring and I've got a couple of things going on. The first is not directly steering related, but it is contributing. My caster is way the hell too far positive. Should be 8° and I'm sitting at nearly 12°. The problem is the front hanger is much higher than the rear. The frame area where the rear hanger penetrates the frame is quite a bit different between the 2wd and 4wd frames.
Here's a pic of my buddy's K30:
And the 2wd frame
You will notice the frame is kind of tapered for spring clearance on the 4wd. Because the 2wd doesn't have that, mine ended up lower.
So I'm going to modify the B-52 front hangers and drop the front down. On my buddy's 4wd, there is 1.5" of difference in the height above ground between the 2 spring eyes on the front springs. Mine have 4" of difference. I'm going to drop the front hangers a couple of inches to compensate. I noticed watching my wife drive the truck this weekend it does look a little weird with the wheels turned which I think is due to the huge caster.
This will pull the tie-rod at least an inch away from the pitman arm so I gain a little clearance in my problem area. I could use a 5° shim to fix it, but then I would be causing myself more clearance issues between the tie-rod and the springs.
I also did some measuring and figured out I need a steering arm that is 6" center to center between the holes. I was hoping it was going to be an easy find like a TJ/YJ arm but they are 5.5" and that won't allow my steering to fully cycle.
I actually graphed it out on my computer. In the drawing below the red "pitman" is the 6.5" that I have now. The orange "pitman" is a 5.5" TJ/YJ arm. The very bottom right pitman would be 6". I know from measuring the steering box's full throw with the 6.5" pitman arm is 8.5". The actual throw that I require is 7-7/8". In the drawing those 2 distances are represented by black wireframe boxes.
With the 5.5" pitman further than the 6.5" pitman can possibly go (as shown in #4) I know the 5.5" won't work. #5 shows me 6" would be perfect.
From the searching I did, it looks like the astro van arm might be 6". Problem is it needs to be reamed to accept the 1ton TRE.
I think what I'm going to do is fix the caster and flip the draglink around to put it on top of the pitman arm.
I did some more measuring and I've got a couple of things going on. The first is not directly steering related, but it is contributing. My caster is way the hell too far positive. Should be 8° and I'm sitting at nearly 12°. The problem is the front hanger is much higher than the rear. The frame area where the rear hanger penetrates the frame is quite a bit different between the 2wd and 4wd frames.
Here's a pic of my buddy's K30:
And the 2wd frame
You will notice the frame is kind of tapered for spring clearance on the 4wd. Because the 2wd doesn't have that, mine ended up lower.
So I'm going to modify the B-52 front hangers and drop the front down. On my buddy's 4wd, there is 1.5" of difference in the height above ground between the 2 spring eyes on the front springs. Mine have 4" of difference. I'm going to drop the front hangers a couple of inches to compensate. I noticed watching my wife drive the truck this weekend it does look a little weird with the wheels turned which I think is due to the huge caster.
This will pull the tie-rod at least an inch away from the pitman arm so I gain a little clearance in my problem area. I could use a 5° shim to fix it, but then I would be causing myself more clearance issues between the tie-rod and the springs.
I also did some measuring and figured out I need a steering arm that is 6" center to center between the holes. I was hoping it was going to be an easy find like a TJ/YJ arm but they are 5.5" and that won't allow my steering to fully cycle.
I actually graphed it out on my computer. In the drawing below the red "pitman" is the 6.5" that I have now. The orange "pitman" is a 5.5" TJ/YJ arm. The very bottom right pitman would be 6". I know from measuring the steering box's full throw with the 6.5" pitman arm is 8.5". The actual throw that I require is 7-7/8". In the drawing those 2 distances are represented by black wireframe boxes.
- #1 is static on both pitmans.
- #2 shows the 6.5" pitman I have now at it's full travel for my requirements.
- #3 shows where the 5.5" pitman would be for the full travel on my axle.
- #4 shows the steering box limit with the 6.5" pitman.
- #5 shows where a 6" pitman would be.
With the 5.5" pitman further than the 6.5" pitman can possibly go (as shown in #4) I know the 5.5" won't work. #5 shows me 6" would be perfect.
From the searching I did, it looks like the astro van arm might be 6". Problem is it needs to be reamed to accept the 1ton TRE.
I think what I'm going to do is fix the caster and flip the draglink around to put it on top of the pitman arm.
I dropped the front hangers this weekend and it seems to have solved, or at the very least helped, with my steering clearance issues.
As I mentioned I had measured my buddy's K30 and there is 1.5" of difference in the front springs between the front and rear spring eyes; mine was 4". Bearing in mind that he has the 4.5" ORD HD shackles, I figure in order to be factory correct, there would be 1" of difference. So that told me I should drop my front hangers 3".
I could have just done 2.5" to be the same as my buddy's, but I'm not certain I left enough clearance between the frame and rear spring eye. I looked at i briefly when it was on the ramp, but I was too distracted by the steering clearance issue to look at it very closely. I thought it looked to be just barely clearing. To be safe, I thought I would leave myself a half inch to play with if needed.
Here's a close up of the B-52 hanger.
I basically scabbed 1/4" plate on the sides of the B-52.
Measured like 5 times to make sure I had it where I wanted it. 47" from the rear frame hanger and down 3". Then I shaped it and added some gussets.
I painted them black this time around.
Since I added so much to them I thought they would look too garish painted silver.
I will admit I'm not overly excited about having such huge hangers out front, but I keep reminding myself they will be hidden by the bumper. I think I'm going to try to tie in mounting tabs between the hangers and the bumper for extra support.
Another positive is that they fixed my caster. It's exactly 8°.
And I have much more clearance between the pitman arm and tie rod.
As I mentioned I had measured my buddy's K30 and there is 1.5" of difference in the front springs between the front and rear spring eyes; mine was 4". Bearing in mind that he has the 4.5" ORD HD shackles, I figure in order to be factory correct, there would be 1" of difference. So that told me I should drop my front hangers 3".
I could have just done 2.5" to be the same as my buddy's, but I'm not certain I left enough clearance between the frame and rear spring eye. I looked at i briefly when it was on the ramp, but I was too distracted by the steering clearance issue to look at it very closely. I thought it looked to be just barely clearing. To be safe, I thought I would leave myself a half inch to play with if needed.
Here's a close up of the B-52 hanger.
I basically scabbed 1/4" plate on the sides of the B-52.
Measured like 5 times to make sure I had it where I wanted it. 47" from the rear frame hanger and down 3". Then I shaped it and added some gussets.
I painted them black this time around.
Since I added so much to them I thought they would look too garish painted silver.
I will admit I'm not overly excited about having such huge hangers out front, but I keep reminding myself they will be hidden by the bumper. I think I'm going to try to tie in mounting tabs between the hangers and the bumper for extra support.
Another positive is that they fixed my caster. It's exactly 8°.
And I have much more clearance between the pitman arm and tie rod.
Brake line question
I have the extended brake lines I purchased 7 years ago. When I was pulling the axles the clear covering over one of the lines split because it was cold and brittle.
Will this be a problem to run? Is the clear sheathing just to protect the lines from corrosion or does it serve another purpose?
I have the extended brake lines I purchased 7 years ago. When I was pulling the axles the clear covering over one of the lines split because it was cold and brittle.
Will this be a problem to run? Is the clear sheathing just to protect the lines from corrosion or does it serve another purpose?
454Sub
5/8 ton status
All mine look like that for the past few years, and actually one never had that coating as I had to build it by hand and never been a problem. In theory, if its quality stainless, it wont rust either way. Its main purpose is to keep the line dry, and protect it from abrasion.
That's what I was thinking, it shouldn't rust. I'll probably just trim it up and keep an eye on it.
Making your own lines, do you have a special tool?
Making your own lines, do you have a special tool?
Ran it up the RTI ramp and I think the steering clearance is all good.
Hard to too see in the picture, but pitman arm is not quite touching the tie rod. I think that's about as far as I want to let the springs go into negative arch so with bump stops installed, I should be good.
Hard to too see in the picture, but pitman arm is not quite touching the tie rod. I think that's about as far as I want to let the springs go into negative arch so with bump stops installed, I should be good.
A_Snyder20
Registered Member
Great looking truck! I always loved the 3+3's
I did something similar with the front spring hanger on the old sonoma, and lowered it down a few inches. Lost some approach angle but the axle travelled more vertically and not up/back into cab and was able to ditch castor shims too.
y5mgisi
1 ton status
Way to make lemonade!
Thanks. I was just thinking the other day I need to make sure and preserve the 3+3 badge.
I'm glad I'm not the only one that has had to do the same. I do think there may have been some goofiness with the suspension with the springs angled like that.
Thanks. It feels good to have the issue resolved.
454Sub
5/8 ton status
Nope, just wrapped the stainless in electrical tape, cut it with a grinder. Then slipped one fitting over it (PITA!!!!) and then the next fitting slides into the rubber, and previous said fitting threads onto the one slid into the rubber and tightens it up. Same as a fuel line if you have ever done one of them. You will get pricked fingers and curse a time or two, but once you get the hang of it, not bad.
Ah, so it's just like the field serviceable fittings I got from PSC.
454Sub
5/8 ton status
Pretty much. My fuel lines were easier than my brake line I will admit. But once your finger tips go numb, you will be in the clear. And have no fear, blood will not mess up the seal. 
Haven't posted an update in awhile. Spent the last 2 weekends working on the front shock mounts. Taking a little longer because I'm learning the tube bender at the same time. Didn't get pictures after this weekend's work, but this is what I had at the end of last weekend.
I also had to put taller blocks in the rear to offset the lift I added to the front by dropping the front hangers down. I've got a total of 9.5" of lift in the rear. Front is about 5.5". In the future when I get around to dropping the rear spring hangers to eliminate the need for the blocks, I'm going to have to play around with how to do it. I think I may end up with a 2.5" shackle flip and moving the front hanger down 1 to 2 inches. I think that will work out right with the 4" rear lift springs I have. It sure gets confusing with these rear hangers being 3" higher up on the frame.
I've also been collecting some parts so I can get the steering system swapped over from the K5 with a little better plumbing. I get very cautious with my steering plumbing because it feeds brakes and steering. I lost a pump on the trail and it was a big pain driving back down with no brakes or steering.
I had debated about swapping in a vacuum booster in place of hydroboost, but I was not sure I could get the braking power I wanted. Plus I have a fair amount invested in my system.
Here are the new parts I'm putting in:
I'm switching over to the Amsoil fluid after reading a bunch of good reviews on it.
Got the new reservoir because my old one didn't have the second return port for hydroboost, it was dumping back straight to the pump. Plus the new reservoir incorporates a filter inside.
On my K5 the return from the steering gear was running through an 18" heat sink cooler out in front of the radiator at the bottom of the core support. I decided to get a smaller cooler that would fit up higher on the core support so it'll get better air flow. This will also allow me to mount it closer to the steering gear so the return path isn't so long.
In addition, the cooler and return line have been upsized from -6AN (3/8") to -8AN (1/2") so as to promote better return flow. Along with that the line from the reservoir to the pump has been increased from -10AN to -12AN.
Here's the difference between -10 (right) and -12 (left) AN.
Here's the difference between -8 and -6:
I didn't change the return size for the hydroboost because the port on the unit itself is so small it wouldn't do any good to change the line size. Plus it's not flowing through a cooler. Actually the hydroboost return only flow when you depress the brake pedal.
Once the shocks are mounted, the steering will be next. Then the truck will be road worthy.
I also had to put taller blocks in the rear to offset the lift I added to the front by dropping the front hangers down. I've got a total of 9.5" of lift in the rear. Front is about 5.5". In the future when I get around to dropping the rear spring hangers to eliminate the need for the blocks, I'm going to have to play around with how to do it. I think I may end up with a 2.5" shackle flip and moving the front hanger down 1 to 2 inches. I think that will work out right with the 4" rear lift springs I have. It sure gets confusing with these rear hangers being 3" higher up on the frame.
I've also been collecting some parts so I can get the steering system swapped over from the K5 with a little better plumbing. I get very cautious with my steering plumbing because it feeds brakes and steering. I lost a pump on the trail and it was a big pain driving back down with no brakes or steering.
I had debated about swapping in a vacuum booster in place of hydroboost, but I was not sure I could get the braking power I wanted. Plus I have a fair amount invested in my system.
Here are the new parts I'm putting in:
I'm switching over to the Amsoil fluid after reading a bunch of good reviews on it.
Got the new reservoir because my old one didn't have the second return port for hydroboost, it was dumping back straight to the pump. Plus the new reservoir incorporates a filter inside.
On my K5 the return from the steering gear was running through an 18" heat sink cooler out in front of the radiator at the bottom of the core support. I decided to get a smaller cooler that would fit up higher on the core support so it'll get better air flow. This will also allow me to mount it closer to the steering gear so the return path isn't so long.
In addition, the cooler and return line have been upsized from -6AN (3/8") to -8AN (1/2") so as to promote better return flow. Along with that the line from the reservoir to the pump has been increased from -10AN to -12AN.
Here's the difference between -10 (right) and -12 (left) AN.
Here's the difference between -8 and -6:
I didn't change the return size for the hydroboost because the port on the unit itself is so small it wouldn't do any good to change the line size. Plus it's not flowing through a cooler. Actually the hydroboost return only flow when you depress the brake pedal.
Once the shocks are mounted, the steering will be next. Then the truck will be road worthy.
y5mgisi
1 ton status
Nice hoops! And nice steering parts!
