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Black Betty TBI swap

Side question here.

Tunercat is not "free" but does have the deffinition file for the 7747 ecu. SO.. do I and everyone else just keep re-installing it every 30days if you're only gonna use it for the 7747 ecu?

is there a downside to this?
 
mrdrinksalil said:
Side question here.

Tunercat is not "free" but does have the deffinition file for the 7747 ecu. SO.. do I and everyone else just keep re-installing it every 30days if you're only gonna use it for the 7747 ecu?

is there a downside to this?
Click to expand...

I liked / learned lots of stuff using the 30 day free version of Tuner Cat, that I ended up buying Tuner Cats. I think maybe Tuner Cat hides something in the Windows registery files and knows that the 30 days has expired, even if you uninstall / reinstall Tuner Cats????

Tuner Pro is FREE, but I like Tuner Cat better. Maybe I Tuner Cat better because it's what I learned first? Maybe I Tuner Cat better because when I compare files, I like seeing what is different in the fuel / spark tables as a Positive (+) or Negative (-) number.

dave w
 
The picture is a screen shot of TunerPro. When using compare from Tuner Cat, the actual difference + / - number will be displayed. Tuner Cat will show if file you are comparing has more advance or less advance by the actual difference. With TunerPro, I have to do the actual math myself. Remember, computers are supposed to make things easier?

dave w

454vs350-02.jpg
 
You can change the date on your computer before you open tunercat and it will work. Someone else said to change the date on computer before install as well for a longer 30 days.

I use TunerPro RT with the Moates AutoProm for real time emulation.

Soldering a 28 pin socket into your ECM is the way to go! Before I did this I had to use a UV light to erase the old chip, then reprogram. Maybe one out of 3-4 chips worked. Now with the 28 pin I have 100% burn success rate.
 
Here is a screen shot of Tuner Cat compare. I like the compare of Tuner Cat better than TunerPro.

dave w

Tuner Cat.jpg
 
eagle mark said:
Before you go buying software, chips, sockets, erasers etc.... if your only doing one vehicle there is a much easier and cheaper way to go for less money. Actually it is a superior improvement over the chip thing.

http://shop.ddsystems.co.za/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=55
Click to expand...

Interesting. Seems just a little more than what I've got planned to spend from MOATES. I like the idea of having complete control over the tuning process with the chip burning though. Seems like this SMT8-Y is one smart piece of hardware to be universal.
 
got the fuel pressure down to 11.5LBS and this thing still runs like a turd. i'm so lost and frustrated now.


...at idle I had a map reading of about 1.8-2.1volts (~43kPa). The timing was roughly 8-12deg. and jumping back and forth around there. I do not have a tach and winALDL wasn't hooked up so I wasn't quite sure what I was idling at but its a rough idle. Under slight throttle the timing became steady but it was past the timing tab I have on the engine. It was 16deg+. Looking at the spark table it seems that I'm too retarded but I dont know how accurate my timing marks are.

Can someone please tell me if anything looks wierd in the raw data log I posted and also when looking at my BLM and INT log, can someone with experience tell me exactly how rich that looks. I mean, how close do you need to be to 128 to be able to drive this thing.

I'm starting to think I have ignition issues but i'm so lost at this point. I didn't expect this swap to have this many hangups.
 
When I looked at the data logs, I noticed the engine was slightly rich. A BLM of 128 is ideal. The average number BLM in the logs was about 122 ~ 124, so slightly rich. I could see the TPS changing in the data log. I could see the O2 sensor voltages change. I could see the engine was warmed up the reading from the CTS readings. I could see different MAP sensor readings (Kpa's). Nothing really looks bad, to say a sensor is bad.

I have spare parts, so if your vehicle was in my garage ... I'd try a different coil, maybe a different ignition module. I might even do an engine compression test / leak down test, just to make sure the engine was in good condition. I might try a different throttle body, maybe one of the 4.3 V6 TBI I have just to see what the data logs look like?? I would expect the engine to be lean, with a 4.3 V6 TBI?? I use my external fuel cell, with a pressure gauge, and adjustable pressure regulator ... maybe there is a sweet spot fuel pressure that works??

One thing to try is a Wide Band O2 sensor, but I don't think that's an option currently available??

dave w
 
What dave w said and look at the link in the TBI Trouble Code Sticky for diagnosing each sensor, coil etc...

compresion test is always good to know but a simpilar test that will usually show a related problem is a vacuum gauge. Steady readings with no shake. Will drop when throttle opens but no shaking. Shaking shows vavle issue etc...

I hate just changing parts when each can be diagnosed. One exception on these systems is the EST module inside the distributor. I have seen this faulty several dozen times but still run and even pass the test...

122 124 in BLM is not that bad! I don't think that is your issue. What were the BLM when the presure was at 13 psi?
 
the log is from when I was at 13-13.5 psi. I am at 11.5 now with little to know change in how it runs. I think ive got a ignition problem I can't see like bad est module or plug wires. I'm gonna replace the plug wires and plugs and go from there.

shouldn't have any major internal issues with the motor. Ran fine with the carb on it.
 
My plug wires all tested good (6k-9k ohms depending on length).

Ok, How do I test the 8-pin Ignition module? I can't find a test procedure.
 
Cracked #1 Spark Plug...

Some times the simplest of things can kick your ass. Plug was fine when I pulled the carb off the truck. Gonna fine tune my fuel pressure and then its on to chip tuning.
 
OK, so I'm back on this after walking away for a while. I rebuilt my trailer and put an aluminum dash in the truck with the TBI swap. Since discovering the cracked spark plug the truck is idling and reving up very nicely. Fuel pressure is currently steady at 13psi.

- Engine will periodically fall on its face under a load and want to backfire through the TBI unit. Acts lean IMO. I am planning some data logging soon to evaluate this issue. I assume (and please can someone verify my assumption) that if I was leaning out at low RPM high load that the data logs should show that.
 
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mrdrinksalil said:
Engine will periodically fall on its face under a load and want to backfire through the TBI unit. Acts lean IMO. I am planning some data logging soon to evaluate this issue. I assume (and please can someone verify my assumption) that if I was leaning out at low RPM high load that the data logs should show that.
Click to expand...

The data logs should catch the lean running condition. The reason I say should is because the older '7747 ECM is a slow processor. The '7747 can catch about 8 ~ 10 logs in a 1/4 mile at 60 MPH. Newer PCM's can catch about 400 ~ 500 logs in a 1/4 mile at 60 MPH.

Replacing the single wire O2 sensor with a heated O2 sensor will help data logs, based on my personal experience. I installed the heated O2 sensor about 2 feet away from the exhaust manifold.

dave w
 
So I think I've got my shopping list from MOATES complete but I have a question for those who have done this.

I am planning on the Burn2, a G2 Memory adapter, (2) C2 sst 27sf512 chips.

Can you solder the G2 directly into the board? Once I go to the EEPROM chips I dont see why I should need an original 24 pin socket.

If I can't solder in the G2 and have to go with a D1 24pin socket then the G2, is the 28-Pin ZIF socket necessary or can you just use a plain 28 pin IC socket?? I dont like the idea of the ZIF socket outside the ecu considering this is a rock crawler that lives outside with no windshield or doors.
 
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