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diesel issues and questions?-update: fuel tank leak

Well, rather than getting pissed with it, lets start with the basics and do some troubleshooting :D I'm willing to put money down on you running out of fuel as Rene suggested, but lets keep in mind that a diesel engine fundamentally needs three things to run - Fuel, Air and Compression.

Since I am quite sure that you've got air readily available, and we are hoping you have compression, that leaves us with fuel.

So, on that note, go to your truck, grab a 3/4" wrench, and crack open a few injectors. Crank the engine over for a couple seconds, then go and look at those injectors. Are they wet with fuel? If not, then you need to check your fuel supply to the injection pump.

To check it, crack open the bleeder on your fuel filter up on the firewall and crank the engine over. Did fuel come out of it? If not, then you need to check your lift pump. Take a short chunk of hose, and a jerry can full of clean diesel. Run the hose into the can, and hook the other side up to the fuel pump. Crank the engine over -- Did fuel come out of the bleeder now? If so, you're outta fuel. If not, then your lift pump is probably finished.

If you do have fuel at the filter (and therefor at the IP), but have no fuel passing through the IP to the injectors, then you must have a failed fuel cut off solenoid. Check to make sure that there is 12V potential on the pink wire that runs to the injection pump while cranking, and in the ON position. Use a test light or multimeter to confirm this.

Also, try applying and removing power to the solenoid, can you hear & feel it clicking internally?

Check these things out, and get back to us!

BTW -- If you have run out of fuel, and need to bleed the fuel system, don't fret. It isn't as bad as you might think.

All you need to do is put a decent amount of fuel in the tank and crack open the bleeder on the fuel filter. Crank the engine over until fuel starts to come out of it. Shut the valve, then go to the engine and crack all the injector lines on the injectors themselves. Crank the engine over until all the injectors are wet with fuel. Tighten them back up, and I bet the old girl fires right up!
 
I must say... what an awesome write up on trouble shooting 6.2l fuel problems.

I copied and pasted that to keep for future reference.

:bow:
 
Does it matter that it is about 8*F outside? Could it be a blown fuse at all? It could be out of fuel if the gauge is incorrect (never happens in a chevy :rolleyes:)
 
Russell said:
Well, rather than getting pissed with it, lets start with the basics and do some troubleshooting :D I'm willing to put money down on you running out of fuel as Rene suggested, but lets keep in mind that a diesel engine fundamentally needs three things to run - Fuel, Air and Compression.

Since I am quite sure that you've got air readily available, and we are hoping you have compression, that leaves us with fuel.

So, on that note, go to your truck, grab a 3/4" wrench, and crack open a few injectors. Crank the engine over for a couple seconds, then go and look at those injectors. Are they wet with fuel? If not, then you need to check your fuel supply to the injection pump.

To check it, crack open the bleeder on your fuel filter up on the firewall and crank the engine over. Did fuel come out of it? If not, then you need to check your lift pump. Take a short chunk of hose, and a jerry can full of clean diesel. Run the hose into the can, and hook the other side up to the fuel pump. Crank the engine over -- Did fuel come out of the bleeder now? If so, you're outta fuel. If not, then your lift pump is probably finished.

If you do have fuel at the filter (and therefor at the IP), but have no fuel passing through the IP to the injectors, then you must have a failed fuel cut off solenoid. Check to make sure that there is 12V potential on the pink wire that runs to the injection pump while cranking, and in the ON position. Use a test light or multimeter to confirm this.

Also, try applying and removing power to the solenoid, can you hear & feel it clicking internally?

Check these things out, and get back to us!

BTW -- If you have run out of fuel, and need to bleed the fuel system, don't fret. It isn't as bad as you might think.

All you need to do is put a decent amount of fuel in the tank and crack open the bleeder on the fuel filter. Crank the engine over until fuel starts to come out of it. Shut the valve, then go to the engine and crack all the injector lines on the injectors themselves. Crank the engine over until all the injectors are wet with fuel. Tighten them back up, and I bet the old girl fires right up!
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Awesome!!!!!! Thanks a lot man! This should really help me out! God I love this site, you guys are great! I will check all of this tomorrow. I may have to get it towed to my work (parked on street and people bitch a lot in this town). But I should hopefully be able to check it all out tomorrow.
Are there any diagrams for the locations of all of this stuff or is it pretty self explanatory (remember diesel noob here :D). Should I just get a haynes manual while im at it?
 
I've started my 6.2L in -15F weather without plugging the block heater in, should start just fine at 8F if the glow plugs are working.

The power runs from the starter post the battery is connected to though a fusible link up to the distribution block on the firewall and to the junction block that passes into the cab. There is usually also a wire (with another fusible link) that runs from the distribution block to the junction block for a total of two thick red wires that pass into the cab. One wire feeds the hot all the time circuits in the fuse block, the other feeds the ignition switch, which in turn feeds the fuse block, heater fan, and the fuel cut off solenoid. There are no fuses between the battery and the solenoid, only fusible links.

EDIT

As far as locations go -- The lift pump is on your engine in the same location as on a gasoline engine (front lower pass side), the fuel filter bleed screw is on the filter (spin on has a petcock, block filter has a little cross shaped plug with a hose that the fuel bleeds out through), fuel cut off solenoid is internal to the IP (front top and center on your engine, large pink wire attached to a male spade on the IP itself, not to be confused with the smaller timing advance solenoid further back) and if you can't find the injectors, we may be in for some fun :D
 
lak2004 said:
Awesome!!!!!! Thanks a lot man! This should really help me out! God I love this site, you guys are great! I will check all of this tomorrow. I may have to get it towed to my work (parked on street and people bitch a lot in this town). But I should hopefully be able to check it all out tomorrow.
Are there any diagrams for the locations of all of this stuff or is it pretty self explanatory (remember diesel noob here :D). Should I just get a haynes manual while im at it?
Click to expand...

Any manual is better than no manual.

Any chance there is a garage at work where you could get it inside where it is warmer? That would help a little bit. And make it that much nicer for you to work on.
 
four_by_ken said:
Any manual is better than no manual.

Any chance there is a garage at work where you could get it inside where it is warmer? That would help a little bit. And make it that much nicer for you to work on.
Click to expand...

Sure is :D Thats why I want to get it there. And my coworker is out of town for the week so it can just stay in there.

So tomorrow my plan of attack is going to be:
check for fuel and put in fuel
check glow plugs and order new ones if needed (think im gonna go with Kennedy ones)
replace battery (can only do 1 right now) and battery cables (all chitty)
 
Russell said:
I've started my 6.2L in -15F weather without plugging the block heater in, should start just fine at 8F if the glow plugs are working.

The power runs from the starter post the battery is connected to though a fusible link up to the distribution block on the firewall and to the junction block that passes into the cab. There is usually also a wire (with another fusible link) that runs from the distribution block to the junction block for a total of two thick red wires that pass into the cab. One wire feeds the hot all the time circuits in the fuse block, the other feeds the ignition switch, which in turn feeds the fuse block, heater fan, and the fuel cut off solenoid. There are no fuses between the battery and the solenoid, only fusible links.

EDIT

As far as locations go -- The lift pump is on your engine in the same location as on a gasoline engine (front lower pass side), the fuel filter bleed screw is on the filter (spin on has a petcock, block filter has a little cross shaped plug with a hose that the fuel bleeds out through), fuel cut off solenoid is internal to the IP (front top and center on your engine, large pink wire attached to a male spade on the IP itself, not to be confused with the smaller timing advance solenoid further back) and if you can't find the injectors, we may be in for some fun :D
Click to expand...

Dude if you ever come to CO or I come to Canada I am buying you many, many beers :thumb:
You made my night man!
I think I can find the injectors no problem :D And now that I know the lift pump is diesel for fuel pump, I know where that is too.
 
Some rather obvious stuff...but it may help. The Injection pump is located up front, behind the oil filler neck. You'll see a few larger guage wires plugging into it. That's where you'll find the pink wire. The green ones activate the "cold advance" (HPCA).

I would bring a plastic one or two litre empty with you. Follow the fuel line from the mechanical pump (same place as on a 350, and looks the same too) up to the filter(s). Then from the filter(s) to the injection pump. Undo the line between the filter(s) and the IP and set up your empty one or two litre bottle to catch any fuel that pumps out.

Undo the pink wire on the IP.

Crank the engine...if you have nothing, try throwing 5+ gallons in the tank and cranking until you get fuel pumping out. Generally I remove the glow plugs for this as it makes the engine turn over very easily. Remember not to run the starter for more than 30 seconds at a time, and let it cool/rest for a minute before cranking again.

Once you have fuel that far, as Russel said earlier then it's time to loosen the injector lines at the injectors themselves. Re-plug the pink wire and crank again until you get dripping from the lines. As soon as i see one "wet" and or dripping i tighten it. They won't all drip at the same time. If you have at least 6 lines with fuel you can go ahead and re-install the glow plugs and finish tightening up fuel lines. Turn key, let it cycle, half throttle and key it up. It should fire and stay running although it'll probably be a bit rough for 10-20 seconds.

My money is you ran out of fuel. It's the simplest explanation for what happened.

Rene
 
Ok just got the truck towed to my shop, now just gotta get through work and then work on it. Can get it into the shop until I get it started though.
 
Ok so I did the fuel tests and I am pretty sure the lift pump is bad. I had fuel coming out of the filter though? But I didnt have any fuel coming out at the injector lines. Is there any diagrams online of the diesel fuel system and the block filter? I will take pics tomorrow and throw up some more questions. Thanks for all the help so far guys!
I at least managed to put in a couple batteries and got the battery cables replaced as well.
 
lak2004 said:
Ok so I did the fuel tests and I am pretty sure the lift pump is bad. I had fuel coming out of the filter though? But I didnt have any fuel coming out at the injector lines. Is there any diagrams online of the diesel fuel system and the block filter? I will take pics tomorrow and throw up some more questions. Thanks for all the help so far guys!
I at least managed to put in a couple batteries and got the battery cables replaced as well.
Click to expand...

I don't know much about diesels but my friend has a 94 chevy 1 ton with a 6.5 turbo and not long after he bought the truck it died on him so i ended up checking the lift pump and it was good but he wanted me to replace it anyways and i had fuel to the filter but still wouldn't start. Needless to say about $1400.00 later for an injection pump and $500.00 for all of my labor i had it running again.
 
If you have fuel TO,and out of the filter,but none coming out of the injector lines means there's still air in the injector lines and pump that still remains and has to be led out..it could be you have two fuel filters,some years had a primary filter on the firewall and a secondary under the intake manifold ,before the injector pump,that might be plugged also..I'm sure the near zero cold isn't helping any either!..

I know its taboo,but if I hadn't used starting fluid,my diesel wouldn't have started till June..even today at 45 degrees my Suburban wouldn't quite start on its own,it has a few (or maybe 4) glow plugs that are dead..if you do try starting fluid,dont use much and disable the glow plugs first..even then,it is risking engine damage..best to have two people to use it--one to get the engine cranking at full speed ,THEN spray the starting fluid in it,and just a short squirt!..but I'd get the fuel to come out of the injector lines and try starting it the regular way first,use ether as a last,last resort!...
 
4X4HIGH said:
I don't know much about diesels but my friend has a 94 chevy 1 ton with a 6.5 turbo and not long after he bought the truck it died on him so i ended up checking the lift pump and it was good but he wanted me to replace it anyways and i had fuel to the filter but still wouldn't start. Needless to say about $1400.00 later for an injection pump and $500.00 for all of my labor i had it running again.
Click to expand...

That is what I am worried about. I think tomorrow I will replace the filter and lift pump and try bleeding the air better. Ran out of time tonight so maybe there is air still in there? I hope thats it. Cant afford a new IP right now.

One quick question: when I "crack" the injector lines, should i unbolt them completely or literally loosen them just enough for fuel to leak out?
 
All you need to do is crack them loose.

When i did my buddies truck i didn't even crack them loose at all, once i was done i only cracked the air bleed for the filter until i got diesel to come out then i shut it and cranked it over for a second and it started right up. If you do need to replace the injection pump make sure you mark the location of the old pump (there is an adjustment there) and try to get the new one installed in the same place otherwise you will have to have someone time the injection pump. I was fortunate enough to have done this and got it right the first time and did not have to have anyone time the pump. I was told that if it ran and didn't bellow smoke out the exhaust and it ran good it was good.
 
Im really hoping it isnt an injection pump issue. If so it may be out of commission for a while.
 
Does your K5 have a block style filter, or spin on?

Are you totally sure that you are getting fuel right to the injection pump? Totally sure that the cutoff solenoid is operating correctly?
 
block filter. what i did was pull the fuel line off of the filter and cranked the engine with the IP pink wire unplugged. fuel came out, then plugged in the ip and cranked again and no fuel from the injector line (only had time to loosen one). I didnt remove any glow plugs but i will tomorrow.
 
Before you start replacing parts, crack all the lines and crank it till at least 6 dribble fuel. Better if they all dribble. Don't start throwing parts at it. If it was running good to start with I wouldn't replace any parts yet. When they run out of fuel the filter, injection pump, and lines fill with air. You have to crack the lines and give it a good opportunity to replace the air with fuel. Don't give up yet, these engines are VERY simplistic and the majority of the time injection pumps get replaced when not neccessary. How much fuel did you put in the tank? I would honestly take the tank out of the picture. Get a empty gatorade bottle (doesn't tip over as easy) fill it with clean diesel and put it on the floor under the lift pump. Then run a new fuel line from the bottle to the lift pump. Then try to bleed the lines again. If it still doesn't work, then replace all rubber fuel lines from the frame to the IP. Often they can break down inside and create a valve that stops the fuel from flowing.

One example of this, I got a truck for $200 last summer with new fuel sender, fuel pump, new Holley carb. The guy gave up because he couldn't get any fuel to the carb. I replace the 6" fuel line from the frame to pump, primed the carb and it fired right up.

Don't overlook simple things like this. Just keep following the advice here and you will get it worked out in no time. Hell last summer I got a VW Rabbit that had sat for 20 years running with just a new fuel line and coke bottle of fuel. Point is these diesels are almost impossible to kill so don't give up.
 
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