Dual Circuit Windstar Fan - Final Shroud Update 05/11/11

[Fordum]

Man that sucks. If it bent that skeg, you're going to have fun getting it back straight.....<G>.

Seriously though, its hard to tell from the pic, but did it fold some meat back down in the wound? If so, its going to have to be rolled back out or you are going to have problems with infection.
Been there, done that.
Either way, keep an eye on it and keep it open so O2 can get to it. You don't need any anaerobic bacteria getting a foothold in there.

And don't be stupid like I was and go insane with the Polysporian. My whole family on my father's side are known for their healing. After surgery, we have to have the staples out a few days quicker than most so we don't just grow right over them.

So, when I had a deep cut, someone told me to put Polysporian cream on it. So, I just filled it full.
Finally, after a week or so, the cut was not infected, not all that sore, it just would not heal. Still looked open and raw. I checked with my doctor, who was familiar with my healing, and he was worried.
He asked me if I was putting anything on it, I told him I was filling it up each night. He whacked me with a magazine on his desk, we are old friends and hunting buddies, and said to just put a thin film on it.
I started doing that, and it healed right up.

Hope you are feeling better.

J.

 

[Lunatic]

Thanks for posting the wiring diagram.

I have a question. Should the PWR feed for the secondary fan switch actually come from the ACC pole of the water crossing switch instead of ignition power? It looks like you could have a condition where you turn off the water crossing switch but, if the coolant is hot enough, the secondary fan will still run if it is in the on position.

*Edit* I guess maybe you're just planning to turn off both switches during a water crossing.

-Mike

You are welcome. I try to keep the diagram up to date (As in - uploaded and available to CK5). Changing it on paper in person is a simple scribble, scratch, and sketch on paper.

You are correct, correct and correct in your final assumption.

As it is now - You could (and would probably find it to be more convienient) use one switch for both fans. If you read through this entire thread from the beginning however, it originally was one fan (which cools plentiful) and one other fan which could be turned on if necessary. That is why there is still 2 circuits - I never thought to merge them.

Being that it is already done (switch install etc) on this end - It will remain as it is - Two seperated fan circuits. The switches will remain on at all times. And, yes, you could also remove the switches completely - but will lose the ability to turn the circuits off for such rare occasions, as needed (You never know).




My aluminum trans pan showed up today - Quite the beast of 12lbs solid chunk of beautiful un-polished aluminum. I should have bought it a long time ago....

I have all my fan wiring ripped out now too. All that remaiins is two 12v power circuits to the relays - All else is gone. While Im running the new coolant switch circuits, I'll also run the new water pump circuit - So I dont end up chasing myself through wire loom. I'll start putting it all back together tomrrow evening - I'll need some new loom and a few more connectors.

The 10SXL I ordered is alot different from what you'll find in the Autozone shelves. I am really impressed with it. The insulation is ...... different - Hard to explain. All I know is, regardless of shipping costs - All my wire will be coming from ADI from this point forward. I talked to the CEO just the other day, and didnt even know it - HE is the one which took my order. This business is awesome in every sense, family owned - And give a hoo about the customer. They even stripe and label wire. I've order from them twice now and give them a 99% A+ customer grade.

I paid less han 40 bucks for 100 foot of #10 SXL - 47 bucks shipped - Try that at Autozone.



I somehow went into my own little thread theft rant.


Hmm....Questions...comments - Welcome.




No schooling today, Fordum ?





Troy B
Ft Hood, TX

 

[Fordum]

<No schooling today, Fordum ? >

Nope, not today. I'm in the middle of getting some friends off on their annual fishing trip.
They head down the intercoastal waterway to Port St. Joe. Spend Thursday, Friday and Saturday night on the boat cooking what they catch or steaks, and then come home on Sunday.

They all come together on my retired doctor's big cabin cruiser, load it with supplies and head out.
They pick up his 20 foot Grady White to fish off of, and swing my aunt's dock, where I have set out two Choffer traps (pinfish).
I meet them on the dock and they transfer the fish.

This gives them some live bait for the big grouper and red snapper they will be fishing for.

If this were all I had to do, it would be a quick operation.
But, every year, there is some emergency at the last minute that threatens the trip.

I got tired of trying to fix stuff over the phone, so I make sure I am at the dock to make sure they get off ok.
One year, the radar would not turn on, another year the live well would not work, there is always something that I have to fix.

Several years ago, before I realized I needed to be there, they called and said one of the two air conditioners kept going out on high head pressure.

Since I was on my tractor, in the middle of my field, two hours away, I tried to tell them what was wrong over the phone.

I explained that something was sucked up into the water intake for that one, and to have one of the guys slip over the side while still at the dock and pull it out.

Of course, they would not believe me. After all, I wasn't there, how could I know. They went off anyway, and all had to sleep in the forward cabin to stay cool, or out on deck.

When they got back, he called a marine air conditioner mechanic. He came out, inspected the situation, went over the side and pulled the plastic bag out of the intake.

So, now I just be sure to be there.

I love to fish, and would like to go with them. But, as I watch them head down the intercoastal waterway, a faint tune keeps echoing in my head....... A three hour tour.....


J.

 

[Lunatic]

Small update for everyone.

Theres a rats nest of wires under my hood at the moment. I cleaned everything out with the exceptin of two wires. Now, everything is back in, plus the new circuits for the water pump.

Unfortunately, I am waiting on ONE piece of wire. It goes under everything else, so I cant terminate all my wires until it gets here and is installed itself. I wont terminate my wires and then have to pull them out of the way or worse - off - again.

I did change something today, though - I moved the LEDs out of the instrument cluster and into the cluster bezel. Getting to everything is a simple bezel off and away now - Much easier to work with than pulling the cluster itself.

Here's 2 pics - One of the LEDs OFF, then ON. What does anyone think about the difference ?

I did get my transmis pan installed Thursday night - It was the quickest FUBAR I've ever been a part of. I had two cans of Right Stuff, one mostly used up. I knew I'd need the second can without a doubt. I ran a very light bead on the pan, placed the gasket, then started the top bead. I ran out of the first can with more than half of the pan to go as expected. No problem.

I grabbed the second can - And fit hit the shan almost immediately. Snapped the nozzle right off the can. The $20.00 can. Many words were verbalized at this point. But the pan needed attention before I could resolve the can issue. I did only what I could - I grabbed a tube of RTV. I knew this pan would FAIL at this point, but decided to follow through anyway.

I put the pan in place and start 2 screws (Came with 12pt 8mx1.25 screws, nice touch I guess). Grabbed a few more screws and noticed something. The clearance between the front driveshaft and the pan- Is scary close. I should have taken a pic. Maybe, if lucky 1/8" of air between the two. The screws above the shaft had to be started then wrenched. Ive never wrenched a pan bolt or screw - I didnt like it much.

I get down to a few screws and find that one of the holes had shifted somehow. More choice words. Left it for last. Got to the second to last screw, on the rear corner above the driveshaft, and the screw just keeps spinning...MANY more choice words. The hole is now mysteriously stripped - But held just a few hours earlier ? Back to the blocked hole - I stuck an exacto knife up in the hole and cut the blockage away.

I now have a 1/4-20 screw (from a sheetrock toggle bolt) through the stripped corner of my pan with a nut above. And I feel ghetto. I'll be getting an insert for the next time I drop the pan (It WILL fail with all the crap it took to get the dam thing hung) and will fix it properly.

That was a day to forget.....




Troy B
Ft Hood, TX

 

[cybrfire]

So, the water crossing switch is meant to shut the primary fan down. Then you have to remember to turn it back on after the water crossing or you may end up with no fan at all? If that's correct, be careful not to forget to hit the switch and get it turned back on. I would forget or something would happen that'd take my attention and I'd overheat.

Control circuit grounds through the dual circuit switch correct?

Awesome thread, love the panel. Super clean. Has me thinking about a lot of electrical changes in the blazer.

 

[Lunatic]

So, the water crossing switch is meant to shut the primary fan down. Then you have to remember to turn it back on after the water crossing or you may end up with no fan at all?

Actually, that is dependant of the driver. In my case, should I "forget" to turn the primary back on - The secondary (which is still ON) would kick over when the higher temperature is achieved. I would either eventually remember to turn the primary back on, or, by hearing the higher pitch of the secondary fan, would alert me to the primary fan being off.

Control circuit grounds through the dual circuit switch correct?

Correct - No further interaction needed by the driver if both toggle switches remain in the ON position, unless you cross water.



Thanks for dropping in and posting cybrfire - Appreciate the kind words.




Troy B
Ft Hood, TX

 

[cybrfire]

Actually, that is dependant of the driver. In my case, should I "forget" to turn the primary back on - The secondary (which is still ON) would kick over when the higher temperature is achieved. I would either eventually remember to turn the primary back on, or, by hearing the higher pitch of the secondary fan, would alert me to the primary fan being off.



Correct - No further interaction needed by the driver if both toggle switches remain in the ON position, unless you cross water.



Thanks for dropping in and posting cybrfire - Appreciate the kind words.




Troy B
Ft Hood, TX

OK, missed the secondary kicking on. That's pretty slick as a back up in that scenario. I just know I'd forget to turn it back on. Could also do a normally closed momentary push button. You'd just have to hold it which could certainly be a pain if your shifting or into something requiring some concentration. Just a thought.

You've done some nice work and lots of good tech in here.

 

[Lunatic]

To start off - I apologize to those waiting for an update. For as long as it has seemed (to me) that I've been waiting for a single piece of wire, and finally continuing forward to this new wire diagram possibly providing all the solutions to the entire installation - I'm sorry for the delay.

The 10' ground wire arrived Wednesday (I installed it that night), my wife's birthday was Thursday (The one day of the year that I serve her instead), and last night I was up until 0130 hours this morning cutting and terminating wire. It is finished, again....

So, without further hesitation, here's the update.

Everything (everything) works exactly as designed ! (FINALLY).

The latest diagram allows for the blue LEDs to be ON.....or OFF..... There is no inbetween (glowing) anymore. The new location of the blue LEDs is spot on. They no longer pierce my cornea, but are still very visible from the driving position.

The dual circuit switch - Is simply "awesome" in one word. In reference to the gage, circuit #1 kicks on at exactly 225*, circuit #2 kicks on exactly at the orange warning indicator, about 15* more. The accuracy of the gage is unknown, but assumed somewhat close. It only serves as a reference anyway.

The dual circuit switch is located on the water neck, replacing the EFE vacuum switch (wasnt functional, so for the moment seemed like a good idea.). The vaccum switch is 1/2" thread, the BMW switch is M14. I went to Lowes and bought a "bushing" (I call them pipe fitting reducers). It was a 1/2" external reduced to 1/8" internal. Drilled the center, tapped it M14 - Now my truck speaks German !


-------------

Things that may change:

1. I may move the dual switch down to the left head. Being on the water neck, the switch is activating according to the water temp before the block. Believing that the block temperature is actually hotter at the head than at the thermostat, the fans would switch on sooner, helping the engine run even cooler.

2. A design flaw unforseen. There is alot of wire involved in the fan install alone. And by adding the electric water pump circuit just recently, I realize I should have spaced the relays out further, leaving more room for the connections and wire routing. At this time, with only 3 circuits terminated on the top left three relays - The clear cover also no longer fits. It doesnt "stand" tall enough to clear all the wiring that protrudes beyond the front of the relays.

Building a new one will be simple enough (to me). The thought comes to mind though that if I do rebuild the cover, and Im in the "mode" (tools and such in the ready), that I should also rebuild the distribution blocks. And, if I do that, the entire panel needs to be removed - Which says to me - Re-space the relays while everything is out. Rebuilding the "parts" is easy - I just dont want to tear everything apart again.

This is just something in the back of my head. Im actually very happy with all the results as they are - Just minor flaws in design at this point.


-------------

New development - I have decided on the color of the fan assembly mounts. I will most likely (unless something terribly stupid happens) be powder coating them in black chrome. From what Ive seen on the web - It will run about $15-$20 a bracket.

--------------

I will be posting the wiring diagram for the BMW dual circuit switch sometime this weekend, and also some pics of the switch installed. Im sure there will be other pics too.

---------------

A special thanks goes out to everyone which helped this small project along to its final state. I couldnt have done it without the brotherhood of the CK5. Thanks !!



Questions, comments welcome




Troy B
Ft Hood, TX

 

[Lunatic]

Wired with new pump circuit included - Getting a little tight already.....

The switch, installed.....

The schematic for the switch - Notes added on the sheet.

Questions, comments.....You know the drill.....





Troy B
Ft Hood, TX

 

[jms]

Questions, comments.....

Well, since you asked: does it actually cool anything?

 

[BGKYK5]

You can probably step down on wire gage if things are getting tight. What is that, like 8 awg? Plenty overkill.

 

[Lunatic]

jms, Does it work ? Funny you should ask. Im running a 180* stat and my fans dont kick on while driving around under normal conditions. The primary might come on if I sit at a light long enough (a long light).

The gage reads a solid 210* consistantly. If I move the dual switch down to the head though I'm sure the primary would come on more often due to the hotter temp of the location.


BGKYK5, I wish it were 8awg wire - It's actually 10SXL. There is one piece of 8 in the photos above - A small piece feeding the fuse block (Only one block).


I'll be modifying the original cover to see what's what. After looking closer at everything - I may be able to trim the openings enough to use the cover.




Troy B
Ft Hood, TX

 

[JDNobodi]

You can probably step down on wire gage if things are getting tight. What is that, like 8 awg? Plenty overkill.

I wish it were 8awg wire - It's actually 10SXL. There is one piece of 8 in the photos above - A small piece feeding the fuse block (Only one block).

SXL has thicker insulation. it looks like one gauge bigger than it really is.

 

[mnstrburbon]

Came out nice good work been lurking and not posting so as not to clutter up the thread.

 

[Blue85]

I recommend to everyone running electric fans to put them on separate circuits. If you lose a relay or a connection goes bad, you only lose one fan and not all of your cooling. You wouldn't need dual-temp to achieve the redundancy, but it does accomplish it inherently. Plus, doubling the load on one circuit stresses it that much more. You only have to lose your fans once in hot weather to realize that this wiring is mission critical.

 

[Lunatic]

I recommend to everyone running electric fans to put them on separate circuits. If you lose a relay or a connection goes bad, you only lose one fan and not all of your cooling. You wouldn't need dual-temp to achieve the redundancy, but it does accomplish it inherently. Plus, doubling the load on one circuit stresses it that much more. You only have to lose your fans once in hot weather to realize that this wiring is mission critical.

I couldnt agree with that statement more.

From the beginning, I had decided that the two fans would be independant, seperated. I initially had the primary (larger fan) on the thermal switch circuit, and the secondary (smaller fan) on a manual switch.

In my stumbling around BWD website, looking for a thermal switch of a different rating (ON/OFF), I tripped over the dual switch which I am now using. It activates two seperate circuits via grounding, at two different temperatures.

Now, I am still using the same idea of two independant fans - But without needing to interact with the secondary fan should it be needed. The circuits are completely seperate from toggle switch to thermal switch.

The relays, left to right, are numbered (white square label) #1 (Primary fan), #2 (Secondary fan), and #3 (Electric water pump) - The wiring labels (14 gage for the relays, and 10 gage for the power circuits) correspond accordingly.

Its a win/win.


But, Im still squinting my eyebrows wondering if your response was "in general" towards anyone who may install a Windstar fan in the future, or if it (the reply) was towards this particular install due to missing some of the details within this thread ?


Regardless - Thanks for commenting and making certain that it is in fact understood !



mnstrburbon, thanks for checking in - I wouldnt have gotten this far without spamming your PM box - Thanks for all the help (again).





Troy B
Ft Hood, TX

 

[Blue85]

My comment was aimed at anyone preparing to go to electric fans and to clarify that you don't need dual temp to have dual circuit. Oh yeah, and to use diodes to trigger the relays both for temp and when the A/C compressor is on.

 

[jtrapani]

I need a new radiator. I'm running a 383 and soon to be putting in a 454. Whats my best option to isure that the truck stays cool? Its an arizona truck with ac. This fan set up a must? The best?

 

[BGKYK5]

Windstar fans are generally accepted as one of the best bang-for-the-buck options out there. I'm sure there are "better" aftermarket fans, but they cost 3+ times as much.

 

[jtrapani]

what about radiator options? Best I can find is a large two core or reg 3 core.