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Dual Circuit Windstar Fan - Final Shroud Update 05/11/11

Lunatic, First, Thanks for all the pictures and drawings you've posted. It's made it a lot easier for me to do the same install. I'm trying to come up with a way to mount the brackets to the rad support. I can't figure out what or where I would find those little black bushing type things. What are they called? Where can you get them? Also how exactly do they work? Do you drill hole and they slide inside, then expand when you put a bolt through? Or do they have to be installed inside the rad support? It doesn't look like they do from your pictures.

Thanks Again!
 
The rubber inserts (technical name "expansion nut")?

008236709032lg.jpg


Lowe's special hardware, in the drawers....The rubber insert has a round metal nut molded into it at the end. You slide the insert in, and when you tighten the screw, it sucks the nut up to the other side of the surface, collapsing the rubber insert and seating it. I used 1/4-20s

I chose these because they're easily replaced if they ever weather... And you don't need to access the other side of the surface you install them in.




Troy B
Ft Hood, TX
 
ok first off this is a great build and fab work but i have a question. on this circiut couldnt you just run a coolant temp switch instead of a toggle switch to turn on the fans and a small led to let you know when there on. i mean you wouldnt have to worry about turning your fans on if you were doing something that required alll your attention or your truck was required to idle by itself for awhile. idk im just thinking out loud.
 
:confused:

79bonanza, for a second there - You lost me. But Im going to go with my gut on this answer, believing you simply missed the information.

The fan system doesnt need any interaction by the operator.

It includes a two circuit temp sending unit, two rockers switches, and two LEDs (with a list of other items ...but...)

The temp switch activates one fan at 195* and then the other fan at 210*, seperately. When each fan comes on, a LED for each is also turned on.

The rocker switches have two functions. One is for main control - Turn it off and the circuits are dead (no fans, period). The same switch also turns on an alarm. SPDT - UP is fans ON (normal operation), alarm OFF. DOWN is fans OFF, alarm ON.

The second rocker switch provides the ability to manually turn the fans on whenever you choose. DPDT - CENTER is normal operation (of the temp switch), UP is the primary fan only and DOWN is both the primary fan and secondary fan.


I think that should clear up any confusion. If not, just let me know. I'll answer anyone's questions/replies.




Troy B
Ft Hood, TX
 
o ok i must have just missed that part i understand now thanks for clearing it up for me , yea i like the setup you have on your rig its pretty clean looking.
 
Thanks for the kind words.

If I could just get this shroud done - The whole thing would be complete.

At 4* today (from wind chill), I dont care to be outside for long, much less mixing resin.




Some day though.....Soon is all I can hope for



Troy B
Ft Hood, TX
 
The fan system doesnt need any interaction by the operator.

It includes a two circuit temp sending unit, two rockers switches, and two LEDs (with a list of other items ...but...)

The temp switch activates one fan at 195* and then the other fan at 210*, seperately. When each fan comes on, a LED for each is also turned on.

The rocker switches have two functions. One is for main control - Turn it off and the circuits are dead (no fans, period). The same switch also turns on an alarm. SPDT - UP is fans ON (normal operation), alarm OFF. DOWN is fans OFF, alarm ON.

The second rocker switch provides the ability to manually turn the fans on whenever you choose. DPDT - CENTER is normal operation (of the temp switch), UP is the primary fan only and DOWN is both the primary fan and secondary fan.

Troy B
Ft Hood, TX


I really like your setup. The only thing is, I don't have AC. How would that affect your wiring diagram which I'm assuming is all I have to follow for the conversion, from the wiring standpoint at least? You have a couple posted so which diagram do I follow and what parts do I use since I see quite a few being thrown around.
 
One thing that he might have not made clear since its addressed in earlier posts.
The fan switches are primarily for overriding the temp switches and turning the fans off.

He does this for deep water crossings to keep from burning up his fan motors trying to blow water.

But, he can override them and turn the fans on continuously in case of a temp switch failure or if he knows of a situation coming up where the engine will need max cooling.
He can do a "precool" on the rad to get a jump on it.
 
....I don't have AC. How would that affect your wiring diagram which I'm assuming is all I have to follow for the conversion, from the wiring standpoint at least? You have a couple posted so which diagram do I follow and what parts do I use since I see quite a few being thrown around.


FanDiagram12-17-2010.jpg




This is the latest (and final) wiring diagram. I thought about deleting the previous versions, but that would make it difficult for new readers to follow what was being discussed (of the diagrams) at the time they were posted. I guess I could put some kind of over write across the diagram - "OUTDATED" or something...And leave the pic where it is. Sorry for the confusion.

What you need to drop from the diagram, for your installation, is simple. Remove the AC Compressor picture, the 30A relay connected to it, and the grounding wires on the same relay (30, 86, 87). Delete those items from the diagram for non AC systems.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Windstar Fan Swap List



While some of this stuff has obvious locations - Some of it does not. It took me more than 2 months to find the maintained DPDT rocker switch. The fan and dual temp switch - I'd grab those from a wrecking yard - Links are only for reference.


_______________________________________________________________________________________________


One thing that he might have not made clear since its addressed in earlier posts.
The fan switches are primarily for overriding the temp switches and turning the fans off.

He does this for deep water crossings to keep from burning up his fan motors trying to blow water.

But, he can override them and turn the fans on continuously in case of a temp switch failure or if he knows of a situation coming up where the engine will need max cooling.
He can do a "precool" on the rad to get a jump on it.


Thanks for jumping in, Fordum. :waytogo:

You are correct and it has been stated before, just not recently.

In fact, the rocker switches, alarm, and even the LEDs - Those are just bells and whistles. A "power door locks and windows" option package, if you will. You dont need them to have a fully functional fan system - But they are certainly nice to have if you decide you want them.



Questions and comments....... Just ask.




EDIT - Old diagrams are now marked accordingly - EDIT




Troy B
Ft Hood, TX
 
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I've been working almost daily on the shroud lately. Not many pics to post up - But I did take a handful tonight.


So, to refresh memories - the last shroud pics posted....


Shroud0250.jpg


Shroud0350.jpg







And the current state of the shroud......


Shroud0850.jpg




Shroud0950.jpg




Shroud1050.jpg




Shroud1150.jpg




A profile shot - Showing the defined lines above the fan blades.... All lines will be blended as a rounded corner, not gradual corners like the base form suggested - Just enough to make the edge blend.

Shroud1250.jpg



Another profile shot.....

Shroud1350.jpg




The shroud was sanded with 60 grit at the time of these pics. I started 80 grit this evening. Anything that looks like chips or chunks missing - Is your eyeballs fooling you. The discoloration is crazy, even in the small spots (holes and chunks).

Im really wanting to at least have all the mounting and shaping (external edges and a few new holes to drill) done this weekend.

I'll take a few pics "as it stands" tomorrow night of the shroud on the radiator and post them up for a real comparison of before to current.



Its time to wrap this up. I wont be stopping this time until that point passes.





Troy B,
Ft Hood, TX



_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Windstar Fan Swap List




While some of this stuff has obvious locations - Some of it does not. It took me more than 2 months to find the maintained DPDT rocker switch. The fan and dual temp switch - I'd grab those from a wrecking yard - Links are only for reference.



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looks good...

straight cloth? how many layers? polyester right? is that a skim of duraglass i see on there?
 
looked around a little bit, but couldnt find. Where did you mount the temp switch itself? is there a metric port somewhere on the engine or is a metric/SAE adapter required?
 
Ryoken, there's a layer and half total, all poly cloth. I cant shake a comment you made when I first started this adventure, being my first fiberglassing experience. You said, "You're not asking for much (in terms of detail with glassing)." I understand that comment now.

Every detail I wanted to glass was a BIG PIA to the point that the shroud decidedly became all poly cloth. I will say this - I learned a lot from this crash course. I will also go further to state that I think it turned out dam fine. Thanks for the available tech support. :waytogo: :bow:

As for the duraglass - No, there's none. If you're looking at the "puddle" that runs across the entire top, thats something else. Epoxy pour. I layed my cloth layers, and in the end was left holding a cup of epoxy. So, I poured and spread, thinking that it would reduce some of the "rough" surfaces in the end. I think it helped, but it didnt exactly "self level" and smooth out like I was imagining. :whistle:

After the run-in with non-yielding glass, I reverted to what I do know. I had a base form - Time to build it up. I chased the cloth with cat hair resin and built from there. Thats where the discoloration came in - Some batches were hotter than others, some cooler.


POORBOYK5, the switch is located on the thermostat water neck, after removing something to do with emissions (I dont remember the name of it - But it wasnt being used regardless). You will need a bushing/adapter. I dont remember the outer dimension, but believe it is somewhere in this thread. I'll see if I can find it.

Post #108 - The dual circuit switch is located on the water neck, replacing the EFE vacuum switch (wasnt functional, so for the moment seemed like a good idea.). The vaccum switch is 1/2" thread, the BMW switch is M14-1.5. I went to Lowes and bought a "bushing" (I call them pipe fitting reducers). It was a 1/2" external reduced to 1/8" internal. Drilled the center, tapped it M14-1.5.

This item is now added to the project materials list (at the end of this post, below).

My fitting leaks a drop or two - I wasnt thinking at the time. Do not tap the bushing completely through. It wont tighten and seal properly (like a pipe fitting). I havent concerned myself with this issue because Im still considering (not a huge priority) moving the switch to the right rear head for a more accurate reading.



____________________________________



Here's the shroud, staged in position - IIRC, this is at the 100 grit stage..

Shroud1450.jpg




Shroud1550.jpg




Shroud1650.jpg




Shroud1750.jpg




Shroud1850.jpg





And here is a quick shot of how it will mount. I still need to drill 3 holes in the fan shroud for 10/32 screws which will screw into solid blind nuts (set in the fan housing).

The front 4 holes are already spoken for, they just need to be re-drilled through the fresh resin in the shroud. I will be plating these bolts instead of using flat washers (A single plate connecting the two bolts), to help distribute the force applied when tightening the front of the shroud down.

RHFull0150-Reference.jpg


Shroud1850-Mounting.jpg




Questions / comments welcome.




Troy B,
Ft Hood, TX



_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Windstar Fan Swap List






While some of this stuff has obvious locations - Some of it does not. It took me more than 2 months to find the maintained DPDT rocker switch. The fan and dual temp switch - I'd grab those from a wrecking yard - Links are only for reference.




_______________________________________________________________________________________________
 
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Almost finished.

I need to fill in some tiny pin holes and re-prime (As Ryoken says, "Rinse, repeat.").

Then 'finish cut' the edges....Hit it with some 300 and 500 grit....And finally, paint. :woot:



Here it is, initial prime stage.


Shroud1950.jpg



Shroud2050.jpg



Shroud2150.jpg



Shroud2250.jpg



Shroud2350.jpg




As stated, minor pin holes......

Shroud2450.jpg



Questions / comments..... :popcorn:


Troy B,
Ft Hood, TX

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Windstar Fan Swap List







While some of this stuff has obvious locations - Some of it does not. It took me more than 2 months to find the maintained DPDT rocker switch. The fan and dual temp switch - I'd grab those from a wrecking yard - Links are only for reference.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________
 
looks good bud.... make sure you soften your edges everywhere.. it helps with finish durability...

now that your in primer, ya can drag some 2-part glazing putty across the pinholes, or even load it up with primer, then block it out... a lot of times when I'm pre-primer I'll squeegie some slightly thickened resin in my pinholes...


I know it's probably been kinda a d*cky learning process.. glass can be that way early on.. but your near completion and it's turning out nice... well done! :waytogo:
 
Ryoken - Thanks for the kind words and tips.

Im going to round every edge right before final paint. Im sure footed at this point - The only difference now is it's an epoxy based form, and not plastic. I guess all my PC case building amounted to something afterall. :dunno:

Ive already ran one pass of putty behind the primer, and after sanding (tomorrow), anything left will be loaded up, and final sanded one last time.

I honestly dont think glassing is difficult at all, actually. What is difficult is having the right combination of patience while laying, but speed to complete the laying before setting - or running out of patience first. :whistle: I guess I could have chosen something a bit simpler in design for my maiden voyage though.

IMO, its like welding in a way - Somebody who has never welded may have the concept down, but shouldnt expect to pick up a stick and lay a beautiful bead first pass. I'll be on that voyage here soon as well. At least theres no setup time for welding feeds though. :D

Practice, practice, practice.

Looking at everything as I work around it - Shroud, fan mounts, electric panel......I wonder to myself WTH was I thinking, and reflect that I didnt realize what I was actually starting. Now that its nearly finished (Since 02/2010), Ive grown alot of pride in the whole build - And learned a good bit along the way.




Troy B
Ft Hood, TX
 
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yeah, just load it up and wetsand the pee out of it...


What is difficult is having the right combination of patience while laying, but speed to complete the laying before setting - or running out of patience first.
that's a big advantage of using epoxy and E-cloth is the vastly extended working time...

polester based resin, standard green fiberglass, or even the improved vinyl ester both using MEKP hardener.. using MEKP is an artform unto itself.. how hot of a batch do you want/need.. based on weather, volume, type of repair, thickened, etc, etc... the hotter the batch, the more brittle, yada, yada....

it's one of the reasons a vast majority of my work is done in West system these days.... epoxy is about 5 x's the coin of poly, but it is also 5 x's as strong... much more user friendly, albeit, not nearly as fast drying... thus why i still use a fair amount of poly and vinyl at work due to quick dry times.... quickie fix stuff..
 

This is a good idea. The sharp edge of the rad support is no fun to lay across and the top of the fans is no good for supporting your weight. I have been toying with the idea of making something like this out of steel. It would replace the two stamped radiator mounts and use their mounting points to hold it to the rad support. For a seal on the top, it seems to me that rubber weatherstripping is better than that sharp edge. I was also thinking of making a recessed tray above the fans to hold tools and bolts while working.
 
This is the end product... I am very happy with it.

There are two minor fixes being needed and one minor point to actually finish.

"As you see it" is how it has been driving around for a month. As soon as I closed the hood for the very first time - It was dusted from the insulation from that point on.:rolleyes:






Shroud2650.jpg




Shroud2550.jpg




Shroud2750.jpg




Shroud2850.jpg


The silver washers and crosstip countersunk screws are what I need to "finish". I have black hex countersunk screws on my bench - The washers will be painted black.






Shroud2950.jpg


Two things here - First and most noteable is the crack on the left and the rise on the right. I got ahead of myself on the final fit and pushed the shroud to seat it - Before it was ready to be seated. Result is cracked paint, which I filled with CA glue. The rise on the right is anybody's guess - Im thinking something was stuck to the underside of the shroud. Simple fixes regardless.

The second "problem" - Somehow my countersinking went loopy. The driver's side is nice and squared up to the shroud - This one made its own plan. Its aluminum plate - I'll simply make another. Too easy.




Im not sweating the fixes - Im about to have a window of time open to me. Now that this is finished, its time to strip the body of anything fastened to it and send it out for paint. While its out, I'll need something to do.


Comments/questions welcome.



Troy B,
Ft Hood, TX


_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Windstar Fan Swap List


While some of this stuff has obvious locations - Some of it does not. It took me more than 2 months to find the maintained DPDT rocker switch. The fan and dual temp switch - I'd grab those from a wrecking yard - Links are only for reference.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________
 
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