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Edelbrock Proflo 4

skunked said:
I drive it like it's stolen so basing fuel consumption on mileage would be just as inaccurate as the factory gauge :rotfl:
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Same here.
I still try to get an idea though.
I tried one time in my Honda accord, drove nice and got 26 mpg.
I get on average 23-24 mpg.
But a couple of tank fills, I drove bad the whole time and got about 21 mpg.
On my trucks I don't bother
 
Still having the odd cut out problem. Of course it's not consistent and I can never screen capture when it happens. The common circumstances are:
1) Morning drive in, first drive of the day
2) Engine temperature either just above or just below 165°
3) Steady state driving at speed.

I don't always have a chance to look at the exact temperature because usually I'm looking for a spot to pull off the road in case it dies completely. I did specifically see this morning it was over 165°, about 170° I think.

So far it's kind of a prolonged stumble and hasn't completely died. It is kinda like it is running out of fuel but the one thing I made sure to look at today was the fuel pressure which was 40psi. Normally at that speed it would be about 36psi. I have a feeling it was a little higher because of engine vacuum due to poor running condition. Tank was full; well maybe 2 or 3 gallons short of full.

Sometimes it's just a single short hiccup. Other times it's more prolonged like a 2 or 3 second stall/stumble that recovers and then repeats again a short time later.

This morning it did this about 3 times in a short span and by the time I had the PF4 app up and running along with the screen recorder app, it never did it again. There are no other indications that anything is wrong at any other driving situation. Yesterday I drove the truck over 3 hours, about 200 miles, to deliver a sign and it ran just fine.

I think it seems to be related to the engine coming into the learning temperature. As I noted, every time it's been when the engine is just below or above 165°. Makes me wonder if it could have something to do with the O2 sensor maybe. I mean if this thing is fouling the spark plugs, I can't imagine that's good for the O2 sensor. But then why does it only happen at that one time in the day.

It's frustrating because it's not consistent. It hasn't done it every morning. In fact, I think this morning was the first time this week. I guess I just need to start screen recording the PF4 app as soon as I leave the driveway every day until I can finally capture some data. Fuel mileage is good and consistent. Idle quality is good. It did struggle to start this morning which is a little unusual for this warmer time of year.

Wonder if maybe I should change the learning speed to slow now that I've driven it quite a while. It's set to whatever it is from the factory, fast I think.
 
SOLVED: https://ck5.com/forums/threads/edelbrock-proflo-4.335548/post-4222806

I fixed the above problem with new spark plugs. Dirty oil burning engine fouls plugs quick.

However, I've been sitting on my current issue waiting to see how it's resolved, but I need to get it off my chest.

The PF4 started giving wonky TPS readings. Some times I would start the truck and it would read 0% or 1%, then then next time I let off the throttle it would be reading anywhere from 3% to as high as 10%. Other times it would read super high TPS as soon as I started the engine. Sometimes it would "fix" itself during the drive, but most times it would stay wrong. It was off by the same percentage across the band. So if it was reading 5% at idle, it would be reading 5% higher at all throttle positions for a given speed. Ironically I had been watching my TPS during cruising to see if I could use that to improve fuel economy. So I knew what the normal readings should have been for say 65mph.

I checked the linkage multiple times and even if the TPS was reading 10% at idle, the throttle linkage as against the stop. I even bought a new TPS sensor and thru that process I learned that resetting everything would fix the problem for about a week and then it would start acting up again. I had the same experience by resetting the ECU and rerunning the setup wizard. But eventually even those short fixes stopped working for much more than 1 drive.

At first it seems like having the TPS wrong shouldn't be that big of a deal. The engine still seemed to be running fine. The problem was because the ECU saw TPS over 2%, it thought I was driving down the road and the IAC wasn't doing anything to help maintain idle. My idle speed was based off whatever position the IAC happened to be in. I found this interesting because on the Holley system, it parks the IAC at 20% when throttle position is above 2%. However the PF4 doesn't ever seem to park the IAC. During my troubles, most of the time it was at 40% to 60%. That meant I was idling at some stupid high idle. Eventually the IAC would meander its way down sometimes as far as 0% in which case it barely idled. I had to open the throttle blades a little extra to make sure it would idle when the IAC dropped to the single digits. Of course that just led to an even higher idle speed when the IAC was further open.

I contacted tech support with some videos showing what was going on. They had me do some things. They had me completely disconnected the trans kickdown, replaced the TPS again, diconnected the Banks iDash, and wired in a new switch on the dash from the battery to the pink wire on the ECU harness. In regards to the switch, tech told me that sometimes the power wire that used to feed the HEI can hold residual voltage after you turn the key off and not allow the system to shutdown properly. They also had me do some other basic things like making sure I could feel/hear the power relay clicking open within 15 seconds of turning the key off.

I knew I was just checking off some troubleshooting boxes and didn't hold out much hope. Nothing I tried made any difference. Finally they told me I had to ship my throttle body and ECU to their electronics department. It arrived at their facility on October 13th. I gave them a couple of weeks and didn't hear anything so I contacted tech and they told me Edelbrock has moved that particular department to another state and my stuff would be forwarded on to them. Okay, I guess I need to be patient. I contacted them again Monday and come to find out not only did the department relocate, but it's an entire new person that needs to go thru training and in the meantime also set up the testing lab. They have no certain idea when it might get tested, but the best estimate is 6 to 8 weeks. He warned me it could take longer because my issue is an odd one.

So I guess I wait to see what the results are. At this point I wouldn't rate the service as good. I really won't know for certain how I feel about it until I get a final resolution. I feel a little like I'm a chump and if I'm honest I feel like they figure it's my fault something is wrong with the PF4. When I talked to them this last time, I didn't get a warm fuzzy supportive vibe. Hell, maybe I did do something to it, but it'd sure be nice to know that so I could rectify the situation. Even if it means I have to buy a new ECU or something. But I would think if I can get the much maligned Sniper to run well, then I must not be too much of a hack.

SOLUTION FOUND. READ HERE: https://ck5.com/forums/threads/edelbrock-proflo-4.335548/post-4222806
 
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They should have been up front about the delays and the move before you decided to ship it out.
 
I was pretty concerned when I saw the news about their plans to move. I hope that this isn't the way things are going to be from now on.
That is crappy for you Scott. I haven't ever found mine doing any of that. I don't know that I have ever witnessed the IAC do anything after I give it some throttle. The only erratic idle I have ever had is if I leave the self-learn rpm too low during times that load the idle more. The A/C and the torque converter will combine to hold the idle speed, but it doesn't return to the set point quickly when the extra load is removed. Messing around in low range, low rpm plays with it a lot. I bump the self-learn rpm up to 1100 most of the time.
 
skunked said:
They should have been up front about the delays and the move before you decided to ship it out.
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Yeah, I would have held off. I already miss driving that truck. I was trying to decide if I could just plunk a carb on that intake and run it. The fuel pressure would be an issue.

Honestly if I had the money I would buy a different efi and sell the PF4 when I finally have the pieces back. The doomsday side of me thinks they're going to tell me there's nothing wrong with it and all the wait will be for nothing.
 
mrk5 said:
Yeah, I would have held off. I already miss driving that truck. I was trying to decide if I could just plunk a carb on that intake and run it. The fuel pressure would be an issue.

Honestly if I had the money I would buy a different efi and sell the PF4 when I finally have the pieces back. The doomsday side of me thinks they're going to tell me there's nothing wrong with it and all the wait will be for nothing.
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It sucks you're experiencing these problems. Have you found any other posts with similar problems on the edelbrock forum? Besides the cold weather tune my truck runs like a raped ape and I'm very happy with it.
 
Sorry to hear about your issues Scott, that is strange. When did you send this off? They moved production and headquarters late least year into April, but that was a while ago. But I knew they were eventually going to move other departments too.

I read somewhere about the Edelbrock possibly recalibrating the TPS every key-on? If that is the case I would think it would cause issues like this if people touch the throttle during key-on. Not saying you are doing it, just saying it in general. There is no reason to recalibrate a position sensor every time you key it on.
 
skunked said:
It sucks you're experiencing these problems. Have you found any other posts with similar problems on the edelbrock forum? Besides the cold weather tune my truck runs like a raped ape and I'm very happy with it.
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I did find one person on the Edelbrock forums that mentioned having the high TPS readings and his comment was Edelbrock wouldn't believe him. That's why I took all the videos including the one of the throttle linkage being on the stop with the TPS showing the high number. Most of the TPS issues listed are people questioning it not returning to 0% but 1% or 2% instead. In general the solution to TPS issues has been to replace the OE sensor with a Standard brand TH42.

folkenheath said:
Sorry to hear about your issues Scott, that is strange. When did you send this off? They moved production and headquarters late least year into April, but that was a while ago. But I knew they were eventually going to move other departments too.

I read somewhere about the Edelbrock possibly recalibrating the TPS every key-on? If that is the case I would think it would cause issues like this if people touch the throttle during key-on. Not saying you are doing it, just saying it in general. There is no reason to recalibrate a position sensor every time you key it on.
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They received it October 13th.

From what I understand it actually resets the TPS on every key OFF. Sometimes when the TPS was high from the start, I could cycle the ignition several times to get it down to 0%. I found that it wouldn't drop the TPS by more than 3% with each cycle.

When I first started investigating this, I thought sure there was something wrong with the shaft between the throttle linkage and the TPS, but it was solid. I don't think I mentioned it above, but I also put an extra ground in between the block and the battery to make sure that wasn't causing the issue.
 
An extra ground, isn't the main battery cable from the battery directly to the block for the starter?

Extra grounds don't hurt, although I think this plastic sensor has its own ground wire to the ECU so it should be the problem. I am sure you have the ECU main power and ground directly to the battery.

Hopefully Edelbrock will warranty it for you, and sooner than later.

Send me a PM if they gave you an RMA# or something to reference the problem. I will see if one of my contacts can speed it up for you. Can't make any promises, but I will try.
 
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mrk5 said:
Yeah, I would have held off. I already miss driving that truck. I was trying to decide if I could just plunk a carb on that intake and run it. The fuel pressure would be an issue.

Honestly if I had the money I would buy a different efi and sell the PF4 when I finally have the pieces back. The doomsday side of me thinks they're going to tell me there's nothing wrong with it and all the wait will be for nothing.
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So if the spark plugs have fouled because of the engine burning oil, then the O2 sensor needs replaced.
I know burning oil will be a problem until you fix that.

And what EFI system do you believe will do everything perfectly? Factory??
Are you going to do an LS swap? Because you have to be honest about how the Sniper has been on the big block. (reliability and performance)
 
BTW, have you checked the harness for any issues with intermittent wires, frayed, pinched, etc? How does the TPS connector look? The terminals in place and not getting pushed back or out? What about the main connector for the ECU?

I've had coil connectors do that, the little metal barb that snaps and holds them in got damaged when they factory crimped it and it would not make solid contact. Had to replace the terminals to fix it. Something small like that can cause frustrating issues. I'd also ohm out the wires to the TPS in the harness while you are waiting.
 
6872xtc said:
So if the spark plugs have fouled because of the engine burning oil, then the O2 sensor needs replaced.
I know burning oil will be a problem until you fix that.

And what EFI system do you believe will do everything perfectly? Factory??
Are you going to do an LS swap? Because you have to be honest about how the Sniper has been on the big block. (reliability and performance)
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I have been thinking the O2 sensor will probably need replaced sooner than later. I am planning on replacing the motor in the next year to take care of the oil burning issue.

After having this happen, I do feel like a factory EFI system might be the best for reliability. At the very least it's easier to get help figuring out what's wrong. But I also know people have had trouble with conversion wiring harnesses not being very reliable.

I've decided it's all a crap shoot. I purchased the PF4 system because I thought it would be more reliable than the Sniper and similar setups. In some respects you could argue it was better because it didn't leave me stranded on the side of the road which the Sniper has done when the coil driver melted down. I don't think there is an ultimate solution for adding EFI to an old truck and getting perfect reliability. In other words when comparing different systems, I would consider reliability a wash between all of the options and a person should look at other criteria for making that decision.


folkenheath said:
An extra ground, isn't the main battery cable from the battery directly to the block for the starter?

Extra grounds don't hurt, although I think this plastic sensor has its own ground wire to the ECU so it should be the problem. I am sure you have the ECU main power and ground directly to the battery.

Hopefully Edelbrock will warranty it for you, and sooner than later.

Send me a PM if they gave you an RMA# or something to reference the problem. I will see if one of my contacts can speed it up for you. Can't make any promises, but I will try.
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When I installed the PF4 I moved the ground from the alternator bracket to the block on one of the bolts for the mechanical fuel pump block off plate. So for good measure, I put another cable from the battery to the alternator bracket. I was just trying to come up with something to solve my problem.

I looked over the harness a little. I also did try messing with the TPS plug a couple of times when the reading was high. I tried wiggling the wires and twisting them a little, but that didn't make any difference.

Part of what bothered me was they didn't give me an RMA. When I mentioned this in the last phone call, the guy was almost offended that I thought I would need some sort of number. He said they have my name, our emails, and the parts and I didn't need to be concerned.
 
I wouldn't be worried. Fortunately, Edelbrock in general I have found to be a very honest, professional company.

Unfortunately they are notoriously slow at processing orders, especially the last couple years.
 
@mrk5 I believe that you may be close to correct with your comments about adding EFI to an old truck. I still believe that it can be done to a pretty good reliable level, my '90 has yet to die on me and not drive home. (Knock on wood!)

I have been around lots of OEM trucks with 250K or more which are still running the original engines. I know of a 6.0 with 550K which still does fine, never had the engine replaced and it still runs a good part of Colorado and some into Utah. And I have heard a several incidents over the years of the occasional wire harness problem, so the OEM stuff isn't 100% reliable, of course.

Hopefully things get back to you soon.
 
Is there room next to the injectors to install propane injectors?
So I could run petrol and propane.
(propane is much cheaper here in the netherlands)
And is it possible to use dual mappings?
So one mapping for the petrol and another one for the propane?
 
It has the ability to have separate tunes, not quite flip of the switch. As for the injector question, it’s pretty tight. If someone with good machining skills went at it, they could potentially do it.

I’d look at a lot of pictures and do lots of math first though
 
There is not much room next to the injectors and I don't think it has dual map ability. You'd have to change the map on the ECU which would take minutes. You might need to run something more sophisticated like Haltech Elite 2500 which should have that ability.
 
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