CK5
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Going to try to give ryoken a break by educating myself here,

I'm still thinking of using a single stage metallic paint on the 78 K5. I have a can of the old paint left over from the mid 80's. I think it is metallic Acrylic lacquer which I believe is now banned. But I don't think I would have enough of it to paint all that I would like. The painted has lasted rather well over the years. I would like to keep it looking like stock. I don't need a glass like finish.
 
Ok I'm seeing the light. Acrylic lacquer is not the way to go. I need to paint two new fenders, rockers and some quarter panel patches. I do not want to strip and repaint the entire K5. I'm not sure what I can paint over the old enamel and lacquer that is on the K5.

  • Original paint on the 78 K5 was in single stage enamel
  • The touch up in the early 80's was acrylic lacquer (so says on the saved can)
  • Lacquer does not generally work well over enamel
  • acrylic lacquer is pricy and not like the old stuff due to VOC laws
  • acrylic lacquer is hard to come by, options are PPG or duplicolor which is all ready reduced
  • acrylic lacquer often cracks as it has on the K5, also fuel likes to eat it
  • Enamel can be shot over lacquer
Positives about acrylic lacquer

  • CAN be painted over a factory enamel or properly applied acrylic enamel (with the correct hardener added to the acrylic enamel when it was sprayed).
  • Lacquer paint is forgiving paint available in easy of application, recoating and repairing later
Acrylic Enamels

  • Produces hard finish
  • Need a paint booth




Paint Types
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http://www.autos.com/auto-repair/types-of-auto-body-paints

Acrylic Lacquer

The original form of automotive paint, acrylic lacquer has been around for a long time. There are some places where it’s illegal, though. Overall, this is the cheapest auto body paint you’ll find. It is also very easy to use. The main disadvantage is that it has a tendency to chip easily. It also fades from sunlight much faster than other paints and chemicals tend to break it down. Overall, this is better as a temporary fix than a permanent paint job.
Acrylic Enamel

While acrylic enamels haven’t been around as long as acrylic lacquer paints, they are one of the oldest types. Their main advantage is that they dry to an extremely hard finish. That means they hold up well in the long term. In fact, these are frequently used by the professional shops. Of course, therein lies one of the problems with these paints. They tend to be much harder to use. It’s more difficult to get a good paint job, particularly for the amateur. Baking these paints in gives a stronger finish, but that also makes them more of a “professional only” type of product. In addition, to get a proper paint job, many acrylic enamels also require a clear coat after drying. This makes the process more involved. They are more expensive than acrylic lacquer paints, too.
Urethane

One of the newest types of auto body paints, urethane, combines some of the best attributes of both acrylic lacquer and acrylic enamel paints. They are not as easy to use as acrylic lacquer, but are simpler to use than acrylic enamel. That makes them more useful for beginners. The finish produced by urethane paints rivals the finish that acrylic enamel produces. These are very expensive paints, though and some require a two part process, like some of the acrylic enamel paints. There are various types of urethane paints and Dupont Imron is one of the more popular. It is technically a polyurethane enamel paint.
Water-Based Paint

Water-based paints are the newest entry into the auto paint field. These are easy to use and produce a smooth finish. In fact, these paints are among the simplest in terms of laying down a coat. You can even use them to go over an existing paint job. The main drawback to water-based paint is that since they are very new, the color choices tend to be limited. Also, you will need to put a layer of clear urethane to protect it.
If you make the choice to do your own auto body painting, be sure you understand the differences between the types of paint. One of the main differences between the paints is the level of skill required to use them correctly. Properly estimate your own abilities before getting into a painting job, and choose paint accordingly.
 
ok.... deep breathes..... 1, 2, 3......

lacquer hasn't been a viable option in 20 yrs... the price has gone up steadily and places like commufornia, it's banned... I can still buy it, but it's STUPID expensive these days...

pro's - stupid easy to use.. a monkey can apply it....

con's - pathetic durability and fade protection... my old boss's 56 Buick would fade under the car cover... :eek1: :haha:

cost isn't horrible cuz your not buying a hardener, BUT gallons are in the $250 to 400 range these days.... which is just ridiculous....

plus, 95% of lacquer work generally needs to be sanded and buffed.... multiply any labor your thinking the job is, by 5.... but you can be grateful for the fact that you can wetsand with water these days as opposed to the 50's, when all the postwar gunpowder was in the paint and you had to sand with gasoline... :eek1:

lacquer does have a "certain" look... thus why certain car enthusiasts have been reluctant to give it up, mainly older cars... but trust me, the looks and results that you can get with uro dog lacquer any day...... way "deeper" and varied results can be acheived than the ole "14 coats of hand rubbed lacquer!" guys...... :haha:

enamel is a bastard period in body work/ auto industry... had a long run in Detroit, and an eternity for body guys.. so user UNFRIENDLY it's stupid... waaaay more durable than lacquer, but doesn't hold a candle to uro...

tho older bulk enamel stock can often be found quite cheaply sometimes.. $50 to 100 a gallon sometimes, plus hardener..

wazzabie... if you think your going to just paint a pair of fenders in brown metallic single stage enamel and it's gonna be decent looking, or come close to matching the other panels, you've got a rude awakening coming... at a minimum, the neighboring panels will need to be blended...
 
Dangit... I dont know if im think skulled or what by i still cant keep heads or tails on what I need to be using! Ryoken, sounds like those are all the reasons you dont want to use lacquer and enamel right? And what i want to be using in any of my foreseeable projects Is uro(urethane) right?
 
you guys should really put lacquer and enamel out your heads.. neither has been used in the industry in 20 to 25 yrs really..


99% of any body shop paint has been uro for a long long time... it's so much better than those dinosaur products it's not on the same planet...
 
Done. Uro it is! Now, you Ned not explain just yet as i will first try and gain knowledge myself by searching, but the next item of business will be for me to learn the ins and outs of spraying uro over any of the existing paint might be there.
 
lacquer over enamel is where you can run into issues... it's solvent can cause wrinkling, etc.. uro over either is fine...
 
Im sure this sounds funny, but i feel like i have just achieved stage one enlightenment. On a side note, i seem to have spelled enlightenment correct on the first shot. Incredible. Which i also spelled correctly on the first try. Now, try to get me to remember how to spell lacquer (<---Seriously had to spell check that..) or Polyurathane, or even urathane....(neither of which were even spelled close enough to correct for spell check to fix. wow.)
 
Ok i hate to hit you with this kind of question but... Rough figure, what do you think it would cost for me to paint my blazer. Assuming I had virtually no body work tools and had to buy everything. Also assuming i will have a electric da but for air all I have is my little 8 gallon 3hp craftsman air compressor. Incase you don't know my blazer is white on red. Needs very minimal body work and is all but rust free. For actually spraying the truck I'm thinkin I could rent a compressor. So what do you think? Under $1000 job done? Or just not quite possible for a "good" paint job? Not looking for show quality perfection but would like a solid 10 footer.
 
This is what we're dealing with.

29041_126206270745545_100000685192854_179008_5804667_n.jpg
 
solid red and white, no color change, sure.. the compressor is a bit of an issue, as you would really need it on 2 occasions..

material-wise, $800, 900 would probably do it, including white.... but you'd have at least a couple hundy in masking and sanding supplies... plus any rental fees...
 
solid red and white, no color change, sure.. the compressor is a bit of an issue, as you would really need it on 2 occasions..

material-wise, $800, 900 would probably do it, including white.... but you'd have at least a couple hundy in masking and sanding supplies... plus any rental fees...
Dont forget the water trap. You need a decent water trap if your going to spray paint.

I think $800-900 is reasonable depends on the quality of paint you buy. I've shot a single stage metallic before no problem although I dont recall the brand of paint that was so many years ago.

When I go to paint mine that will be about my buget. Masking tape is cheap. The sanding supplies you could spend a bundle on. His truck looks to be in pretty decent shape to begin with. Should be easy to knock down.

Thing with painting you ask 10 different people you will get 10 different answers. OP needs to ask what exactly your trying to accomplish and then go from there. You can cut lots of corners and all of them will effect your final product to a certain degree.

My father owns a body shop in Washington near Tacoma. I grew up around the stuff so I know a little bit but I am no expert. I was never interested in the work myself. Watching people come out of the spray booth spitting up different colors. Not to mention body work is more work then people realize. Just not for me!!!

If I remember correctly PPG had a good name. Just go with a brand that has hardener in it. They have some paints like Sikkens that can be a pita if you dont have a heated spray booth.
 
you should see the sapphire blue metallic hull on a 38' Formula I'm painting at the marina right now.. the worst pollen season in forever and I'm outside shooting dark blue metallic paint on the side of a house... reminder.... I don't get paid enough...

I don't mind them painting in base clear, but Formula run's the fancy catalyzed base, which I'm not huge on... it's very good, but I'm sooooooo used to non-catalyzed base coat, it's been a hard swapover.... I don't squirt it very often...

all the major manny's have high end lines out, Dupont, PPG, Glasurit, etc... but most also have an economy line, Omni, etc that are MUCH more affordable...
 
Urethane paints contain isocyanates, toxic compounds that are absorbed into the body through the lungs and through the skin, and so they require stricter safety precautions that most home painters may not want to implement.

I'm leaning more towards either acrylic enamel or acrylic lacquer now. As these are safer to paint. I would like to paint this in the driveway and make a paint booth with some painters plastic tarp. I'm so confused. Maybe I should just take it to Maaco.

Old habits die hard for me. I like doing things the old way. I priced out some PPG Duracryl acrylic lacquer from the jobber. $150/ quart. For me what would make me happy is if the paint is easy to apply, looks ok, I can paint the K5 in sections as I'm going to keep the hood and door in the original paint, it will be easy to paint and touch up any scrapes and scratches. The K5 is mostly going to be used for trails and pleasure driving. I don't care for a high gloss look. The original paint was oxidized really bad. I would wipe it with a towel and color would come out. I put some wax on it and it looked ok to me after that. What I don't want is the crinkled finish I see on some repaints.

What I would like to do is paint the new OEM fenders that are in EDP black with Acrylic enamel and then paint the rockers in Acrylic Lacquer.
 
Urethane paints contain isocyanates,

really? :rolleyes:

actually, it's anything with a catalyst, so your enamel falls into that category too...



ya can lead a horse to water.... it's like bashing my forehead on a wall with you... do whatever you want... I've explained a dozen times in here why lacquer and enamel are bad choices, but apparently you in all your search prowess know better than someone who has painted thousands of cars...
 
You mean i should actually listen to the advise you give? Oh ok, my bad. I thought we were just testing your typing skills. Would you mind repeating your self a few times on that?
 
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