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Is it worth the cost to rebuild a gen1 SBC?

mrk5 said:
Will the factory TBI intake work with those heads? Are these the heads you are talking about? http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wrl-042660/overview/make/chevrolet
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Realize those are bare. These are apparently the complete ones of the same head. Although they don't seem to show the correct center intake bolt patterns, probably stock image, or the bolt angle isn't enough to notice. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wrl-042660-1/overview/

The amount of parts and labor necessary to make a set of bare heads complete, IMO makes the complete heads a better deal, unless you know you are going to have to re-do some component anyway.

There are also these: http://www.high-performance-engines.com/product-p/sbc64195.htm and these http://www.blueprintengines.com/ind...tem/bp-195cc-sb-chevy-aluminum-cylinder-heads but I'm not sure if they make any for the TBI pattern. The "good" thing with TBI is that a spreadbore to TBI adapter isn't that much, relatively. Going with the earlier intake pattern or vortec is then feasible. However, I'm very partial to the centerbolt valve covers, IMO that is something to consider. Haven't had leak one from mine, and they've been on and off a few times, same rubber or neoprene gaskets.
 
I disagree with them being cheaper to buy assembled. I assembled them cheaper myself with the prescribed parts for my cam. The intake bolts would be correct as long as you're not using a vortec intake. The Sr stands for stock replacement, which is why there a big hit for circle track guys.
 
I've not done any valve jobs, the complete heads have a 3 angle valve job (which apparently 5 angle or somesuch is the new thing FWIW), are the bare ones real easy to do the valve job yourself?

Valves, springs, retainers, locks, seals, and studs put together in the heads for $460? Summit's search engine sucks, but valves look to be ~$200 alone, there is probably a kit isn't there?

I'm at a point where I need to pick and choose where I spend time, and what I pay someone else for. On the heads, to me, it looks like there are enough assemblies out there that for a stock-ish engine, off the shelf there is something complete for just about everyone. If you know the cam specs and intake you are going to run, pretty easy to determine if anything ready-made will work for you.
 
I can post my parts here in just a sec.

The bare ones came 3 angled and ready to assemble. I originally had stock 350 heads and had a guy rework them for free only to find out they were cracked. I would think a proper 3 angle would be at least $200 but like I said the bares are ready to go.

I don't know a whole lot about valve train mix matching so I pieced my stuff together where need be and got the recommended comp cams parts for their cam. I did everything I could to build as much torque as possible with stock bore and stroke. Did lots of research on heads and as you mentioned the smaller the runners the more torque you make. That's why I like the torquer heads at 170cc plus a nice bump in compression from the smaller 67cc port.

The closest thing I found in aluminum was the edelbrock performance series heads which were roughly the same price but needed a 3 angle and the guides to be reamed...didn't feel like making more work for myself and not to mention the bigger 185cc runners and a bigger chamber.
 
 
If my math is right, $354 for the head-specific items. $110 less than complete, and you know what you are getting in terms of component brand.

Do you need to just lap the new valves, or?

If it's a matter of simply slapping the parts together on the heads, not a bad way to save money. Of course, have to be able to compress the springs, loc-tite, torque the fasteners, etc., but if you enjoy doing it, and have the tools, why not?

I swear that years back when I had a set of Oldsmobile heads done, the machine shop actually checked spring pressure on each valve, I recall them running shims as necessary under specific valves. Maybe not an issue with much more modern stuff?
 
No matter if you build it yourself, or buy a complete quality high performance build, it is going to cost you. I am guessing the block you have is a TBI swirl port head block. TBI swirl port heads like to crack when they get old for no reason other than they are old and fatigued. The TBI blocks are good for rebuilding though. I have an old TBI 4-bolt main block (1-piece rear main seal) I want to rebuild someday. I would definitely get a set of aftermarket heads for it though because the GM factory head casting is too thin for a stout and long lasting engine build.
 
Yeah exactly. I feel like the assembled ones probably could have worked but I wanted the experience of putting them together. I didn't know what kind of stuff they used too so I figured I'd go with the recommended stuff.

Valves were ready to go and actually were swirl patterned. It's one of those deals where it's a summit part but obviously some big name mfg making them.

Yeah if you have the spring compressor like I did then go for it. I get a kick out of seeing stuff go together, plus I can see if there's any hang ups before things go bad. The heads, like any other bare ones I'm sure came fairly dirty with cutting oil on them. Not much but I knew they needed to get a good washing. Just hosed them down and wd40 them. If the assembled came like that I'd feel like I would have to take them apart...too gritty for me.

I think the quality control is so dialed that everything comes out more or less the same. I know the big power guys still check all that stuff of course. I'm just looking for lots of torque for rock crawling!
 
1-ton said:
I am guessing the block you have is a TBI swirl port head block.
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If you were directing that at me, it's a Vortec block. I need to dig it out from under the bench and tear into it to make sure it's good for a rebuild. Buddy bought the heads off it, and guy wanted $100 for the short block, so I figured it was worth a gamble for that price. Unmodified motor at the time, so if its not damaged too badly, should be a decent base. Previous owner either had a head gasket go and cracked a head, or the head cracked spontaneously, supposedly it was taken out running. Buddy lost on that deal, he didn't notice the crack before purchase. I'll find out if anything is wrong with the bottom end once it's on the stand. Crossing my fingers.

It will be another month though, work has me traveling. Unfortunately, I can fantasize about the parts all I want, until I get it torn down and to the machine shop, can't actually order much.
 
Carcinogen said:
Aren't those just stock vortecs? Do you have a cam already?
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Yep, those are stock Vortecs. Nothing wrong with them, as long as you are using a low-lift cam and don't mind the pressed in studs. And thin castings.

Not sure about the thin casting/cracking problem these things seem to have, I'm not certain the cracks aren't a result of abuse...but I'm leaking coolant somehow, guess it could be a crack, and I know mine haven't gotten hot.

Interesting, apparently the 062/906 difference in flow was a myth (or minimally true, based on press-in seats possibly creating a lip), but I found at least one site that claims Mexican Vortec heads (which are all new ones apparently) give up about 10HP over the earlier Canadian/US castings.
 
Blueprint engines makes a set of heads that accept both intake bolt patterns. Either way If you do buy the heads Id call and get a cam custom ground, you will leave power on the table if you dont, any aftermarket head is going to flow much better, I would say even with a small cam less than 220 degrees with the most lift the heads will handle. Youll at least get what you paid for..
 
Cracking on a new set of factory heads is not a problem. It is an old set of factory heads with a couple hundred thousand miles on them that are a problem.
 
Competition Products have good prices as well. I ran a set of there "Head Improver Kit" on one of my other BBC's w/o any issues....
 
dyeager535 said:
Yep, those are stock Vortecs. Nothing wrong with them, as long as you are using a low-lift cam and don't mind the pressed in studs. And thin castings.

Not sure about the thin casting/cracking problem these things seem to have, I'm not certain the cracks aren't a result of abuse...but I'm leaking coolant somehow, guess it could be a crack, and I know mine haven't gotten hot.

Interesting, apparently the 062/906 difference in flow was a myth (or minimally true, based on press-in seats possibly creating a lip), but I found at least one site that claims Mexican Vortec heads (which are all new ones apparently) give up about 10HP over the earlier Canadian/US castings.
Click to expand...

I had a head on my old TBI swirl port engine crack, and the engine never over heated. The engine had about 230,000 miles on it, and after expanding and shrinking several thousand times over the engines life, the right side head just cracked one day on me. You are correct about being limited on cam selection on a set of factory heads with push-in rocker studs. I just bought a new GM Goodwrench crate engine for my truck, and had to go with a very mild RV cam because of the press-in studs.
 
My stock 350 heads had a wicked crack in them. roughly 80000 miles. No more old junk for me...a large part of the motivation to go with new heads. I wasnt about to go on a treasure hunt for uncracked heads just to find out theres a crack when they get cleaned up.
 
To give you more options, I have a base TPI intake manifold that's the old head design for the intake bolts.
 
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