If I where building a quality engine, I would definitely spend the money for a set of aftermarket heads. Almost any aftermarket head is a better quality head than factory ones because of the increased thickness of the castings.
CK5
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Is it worth the cost to rebuild a gen1 SBC?
- Thread starter dyeager535
- Start date
If I where building a quality engine, I would definitely spend the money for a set of aftermarket heads. Almost any aftermarket head is a better quality head than factory ones because of the increased thickness of the castings.
So when you look at the time to plan the build, collect the parts, runs to machine shops, picking up any extra tools you might need, break-in and tuning....
How does that compare to drop in Gen III and tune? Just feeling out how set you are on not converting.
How does that compare to drop in Gen III and tune? Just feeling out how set you are on not converting.
wetoolowdingbangow
1/2 ton status
He'll of course have to answer that but i my experience the sbc is still going to be cheaper in the sense that you have a rebuilt motor.
Theres no way id pay what people want for a "turnkey" ls/lq/lm motor...its so close to what building a gen 3 would cost and you know its brand new. Regardless of their inspections id still take it apart and measure/check things out for myself.
The accessories cost more, youll need to come up with a wiring harness and so on...time consuming just the same.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevy-Origi...ash=item27fb3d2f90:g:RvgAAOSwv0tVA063&vxp=mtr
Im still running these...
Im still running these...
I hope I'm not hijacking Dorian's thread, but I feel like this is furthering the same conversation he started.
I was looking at the Chev Perf vortec heads I linked because I was planning on a mild cam (I think it's mild) 254/262 adv duration, a CompCam 4x4 cam. I want to keep it simple for chip programming. My goal is simplicity and reliability which is why I like the idea of rebuilding a motor versus a used 5.3L. I know this will sound like sacrilege, but I'm not after gobs of power just adequate power and again reliability. Not that I'm implying an LS based motor isn't reliable.
But also because of reliability I'm not gung-ho about putting on heads that might be prone to cracking.
I was looking at the Chev Perf vortec heads I linked because I was planning on a mild cam (I think it's mild) 254/262 adv duration, a CompCam 4x4 cam. I want to keep it simple for chip programming. My goal is simplicity and reliability which is why I like the idea of rebuilding a motor versus a used 5.3L. I know this will sound like sacrilege, but I'm not after gobs of power just adequate power and again reliability. Not that I'm implying an LS based motor isn't reliable.
But also because of reliability I'm not gung-ho about putting on heads that might be prone to cracking.
I don't have a 327, it's a 350.....
BTW, yes I'm playing dumb but only because I'm dumb about those heads. 
Just high compression 327 heads. Puts me at ~10:1 vs the anemic 8.5:1 most TBI motors make.
the airflow characteristics on those are great for idle to 3500 torque.
These will be the replacement head when the time comes
http://www.summitracing.com/search?SortBy=BestKeywordMatch&SortOrder=Ascending&keyword=zz4 heads
I had the same dilemna about this time last year, thought I popped a head gasket on my 383 (turbo'd) and turns out I split a cylinder wall. Bad casting (too thin)? Hard to say, but seriously odd failure on stock head gaskets with stock head bolts.
Had a lot of cool guy parts for a Gen I, it was a full roller motor, Vortec heads, etc. Had to make the decision whether to build another Gen I or do something different.
I fell on a 6.0L LQ4 that was missing the fuel injection parts, great because I was hoping to keep the propane fuel system (in my buggy, rather than the diesel pickup).
EVERYTHING is a win-win on the newer stuff, and I didn't even use the fuel injection (probably one of the biggest pros for the Gen III+ engines).
I had a cool guy MSD US made distributor, Edelbrock dual plane manifold, Vortec heads, full roller, 383 stroker, etc. A pretty good start on a hot Gen I motor. Had a lot of things that could've made a Gen I rebuild make sense and I'd do the Gen III again every time.
Dead set lol. I should have gone diesel. If I was going any other direction, it would be that. But I'm to the point now that I don't use the truck enough to justify any awesome swaps like an LS or diesel. I know the power is there. The longevity is there. The economy is there. But if I'm happy with what I've got, building essentially a clone and dropping it in will suit me perfectly fine. I'd never recommend anyone at this point consider the SBC over an LS, unless cost was the only factor and you had a SBC for dirt cheap to drop in.
I've got or have access to most everything needed to rebuild it tool-wise, and I did the one in it now, so I'm pretty comfortable with that portion. You are correct on the time however, there will be the time of dealing with the machine shop, waiting to find out what they needed to do to the block and crank to get it usable before I can order parts, figuring out whether to run the stock rods again after resizing, or go with aftermarket rods, etc. I'll have a lot of time and money into it. Compared to a turn-key used LS motor, I wouldn't be surprised if I came out about the same price. I realized quite a few years back that rebuilding your own motor isn't likely to save you much money over buying something pre-made. This is going to get the parts I want it to have, which isn't an option with the pre-built short and long blocks.
You read the review on them? Not the first place I heard that either. Not saying it's common, but it's out there. They also aren't even a real fast burn chamber like Vortecs. For the money, I think there is better out there. $1200 may even get you into a set of AFR's. I know it's ~$200 shy of the E-tecs.
Actually have had several engines with those, nothing but good things to say about them from this kid
You haven't seen any casting issues?
For the money I'd go with these http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-30310001/overview/make/chevrolet But now I have to do some calcs to see where that 56CC chamber puts you for compression. The L98s ran 58CC chambers, so probably not a real issue. Or easily fixed with head gasket cylinder diameter/valve relief.
Talked with the same machine shop (and guy) that did my present block 15 years ago, said about $800 for the work on this one. Bore, hone, align bore, balance, check deck, flux, cam bearings, resize rods, hang pistons on the rods.
Doesn't seem bad, can't get similar for same or less price via mail order from what I've found.
Now determination of parts. Even knowing my application he recommended AFR's over the other offerings, but they just don't come equipped the way I need them to be.
Did get feedback on which oil pump to run from Melling's George Richmond (the guy in their SBC oil pump video as a matter of fact, lol) and he said to use the M-99HV-S, which is the BBC pump made for the SBC. Even over the new shark tooth style pumps. Given a 4500RPM max and high loading at very low RPM's, this was his recommendation. Also had the same recommendation from another source FWIW.
Doesn't seem bad, can't get similar for same or less price via mail order from what I've found.
Now determination of parts. Even knowing my application he recommended AFR's over the other offerings, but they just don't come equipped the way I need them to be.
Did get feedback on which oil pump to run from Melling's George Richmond (the guy in their SBC oil pump video as a matter of fact, lol) and he said to use the M-99HV-S, which is the BBC pump made for the SBC. Even over the new shark tooth style pumps. Given a 4500RPM max and high loading at very low RPM's, this was his recommendation. Also had the same recommendation from another source FWIW.
The oil pump info is good, I was wondering about that myself. Thanks for posting follow up info!
FWIW, I'm guessing the $100 core charge is not worth the shipping back on those. Just an added $100 to the cost.
I had looked at those, apparently only difference is the 3/4+ are 4 bolt mains. Would have to swap cams and oil pump to get it where I want to be, perhaps pan to get a 5 quart, but it is tempting. It would save me from either the costly Edelbrock only Vortec replacement heads, or finding an earlier TPI intake. Not hard to find, just more cost.
Adding aftermarket head cost to the machine work puts me at the price of those longblocks. I need to work the math out. Not that roller lifters necessarily wear out, but going with new you'd hope to be going with components you can trust vs. reusing the ones out of my unknown quality donor block.
So...anyone think of a reason NOT to go with this motor? http://www.jegs.com/i/Chevrolet-Performance/809/12530283/10002/-1
Had to think about it, but my only real complaint is the cam, valvesprings, and press in rocker studs, but in reality, for my application, I think the stock cam may work out better.
The roller lifters being new is a plus (vs. buying replacements, or re-using the ones I have), I will still get a 5qt pan, different oil pump, and likely have to get a CPS p[lug or new timing cover. However at $800 for machining, and heads even at $1000, Don't see there is any way I could come out ahead building it myself.
I can call them to get details of course, but from Summit and Jegs, their shipping policies on engines seem a bit vague...mainly relating to getting it off the back of the delivery truck. Anyone dealt with this? Is "free" shipping really free on engines? No idea why Summit wants $100 core charge on a new engine, especially since it would be nowhere near worth my expense to ship one back for $100. Like a free $100 for them.
Edit: one other thing...I assume there should be no issue with a distributor from the factory roller cam engine that I'm already running working in this factory roller cam engine?
Had to think about it, but my only real complaint is the cam, valvesprings, and press in rocker studs, but in reality, for my application, I think the stock cam may work out better.
The roller lifters being new is a plus (vs. buying replacements, or re-using the ones I have), I will still get a 5qt pan, different oil pump, and likely have to get a CPS p[lug or new timing cover. However at $800 for machining, and heads even at $1000, Don't see there is any way I could come out ahead building it myself.
I can call them to get details of course, but from Summit and Jegs, their shipping policies on engines seem a bit vague...mainly relating to getting it off the back of the delivery truck. Anyone dealt with this? Is "free" shipping really free on engines? No idea why Summit wants $100 core charge on a new engine, especially since it would be nowhere near worth my expense to ship one back for $100. Like a free $100 for them.
Edit: one other thing...I assume there should be no issue with a distributor from the factory roller cam engine that I'm already running working in this factory roller cam engine?
When I bought my crate 350 from summit I had it delivered to the dealership I was working at. The shipper was unprepared to unload it. I had to get our forklift and unload it and put it in the back of my truck. That was back in 2006 though.
