Is it worth the cost to rebuild a gen1 SBC?

[ratfink65]

So...anyone think of a reason NOT to go with this motor? http://www.jegs.com/i/Chevrolet-Performance/809/12530283/10002/-1

Had to think about it, but my only real complaint is the cam, valvesprings, and press in rocker studs, but in reality, for my application, I think the stock cam may work out better.

The roller lifters being new is a plus (vs. buying replacements, or re-using the ones I have), I will still get a 5qt pan, different oil pump, and likely have to get a CPS p[lug or new timing cover. However at $800 for machining, and heads even at $1000, Don't see there is any way I could come out ahead building it myself.

I can call them to get details of course, but from Summit and Jegs, their shipping policies on engines seem a bit vague...mainly relating to getting it off the back of the delivery truck. Anyone dealt with this? Is "free" shipping really free on engines? No idea why Summit wants $100 core charge on a new engine, especially since it would be nowhere near worth my expense to ship one back for $100. Like a free $100 for them.

Edit: one other thing...I assume there should be no issue with a distributor from the factory roller cam engine that I'm already running working in this factory roller cam engine?

This is the way I went. Remember that Summit will price match for the same part number. I found one on ebay at a GM dealer for 1800 with 400 shipping. Summit matched the 1800 and gave me free shipping.

EFI Connections sells a plug for the timing cover for $9.99. Thier minimum order is 15 bucks so just buy some wiring loom tape for 7 bucks.

 

[1-ton]

So...anyone think of a reason NOT to go with this motor? http://www.jegs.com/i/Chevrolet-Performance/809/12530283/10002/-1

Had to think about it, but my only real complaint is the cam, valvesprings, and press in rocker studs, but in reality, for my application, I think the stock cam may work out better.

The roller lifters being new is a plus (vs. buying replacements, or re-using the ones I have), I will still get a 5qt pan, different oil pump, and likely have to get a CPS p[lug or new timing cover. However at $800 for machining, and heads even at $1000, Don't see there is any way I could come out ahead building it myself.

I can call them to get details of course, but from Summit and Jegs, their shipping policies on engines seem a bit vague...mainly relating to getting it off the back of the delivery truck. Anyone dealt with this? Is "free" shipping really free on engines? No idea why Summit wants $100 core charge on a new engine, especially since it would be nowhere near worth my expense to ship one back for $100. Like a free $100 for them.

Edit: one other thing...I assume there should be no issue with a distributor from the factory roller cam engine that I'm already running working in this factory roller cam engine?

I bought a chevy crate engine from Jegs a few months ago. I had the engine delivered to where I work. My work has a forklift to unload the engine. If you have your engine delivered to a commercial address, which has a dock or forklift to unload the engine, then the shipping is free. But, if you have the engine delivered to a residential address, then there is an extra charge. If a tail gate lift is needed to unload the engine, then there is an extra charge for that too. Your best bet is to have the engine delivered to a commercial address if you can, and if you do not have a dock or forklift to get it out, then make sure you bring your engine hoist to lift it out of the back of the truck. This way you will get the free shipping.

The engine you are looking at is definitely a good engine. Like already posted, you should shop, and then price match. That is what I did with Jegs and I saved $45. Not having screw in studs is a limiting factor in cam choice, but If you wanted to go the extra effort, you could remove the heads and have screw in studs installed.

 

[dyeager535]

Good info folks, thanks. Buddy suggested having it shipped to a local freight distribution center and just picking it up from there...they'll be able to fork it into the back of my truck. Time is worth money, but if they get you on both the residential AND liftgate shipping, it probably starts to make less sense to pay the fees vs picking it up somewhere local.

Too bad they don't include a CPS plug. Not a huge fan of plastic timing covers, but I suppose as long as I don't catch the engine on fire I shouldn't worry.

 

[dremu]

Since it's a GM part, see what your local dealer can do. When I did this -- which was admittedly last century -- I went down and bought the motor, they had it in stock. They dropped in the back of my truck, I went home, pulled it with my cherry picker. Boom, no truck fees or hassles.

-- A

 

[dyeager535]

Another great suggestion. I don't often head that way, so didn't even think about it, but there is a Chevy dealer just a few miles out. In the past I've had bad luck with dealer parts pricing (even gmpartsdirect.com is ridiculous on this engine for some reason) but it never hurts to ask.

 

[dremu]

Another great suggestion. I don't often head that way, so didn't even think about it, but there is a Chevy dealer just a few miles out. In the past I've had bad luck with dealer parts pricing (even gmpartsdirect.com is ridiculous on this engine for some reason) but it never hurts to ask.

Yeah, for small parts they tend to ream you, but the additional shipping costs on mail ordering a motor might make it worthwhile. They may also be motivated to adjust based on Internet pricing.

Back then, I had three or four Chebby dealers within easy driving distance, so that was my price-matching

-- A

 

[1-ton]

Since it's a GM part, see what your local dealer can do. When I did this -- which was admittedly last century -- I went down and bought the motor, they had it in stock. They dropped in the back of my truck, I went home, pulled it with my cherry picker. Boom, no truck fees or hassles.

-- A

I went to a local Chevy dealer here in town, just for the hell of it, to ask how much for the same engine I bought from Jegs for $1645 + free shipping. The Chevy dealer wanted almost $2000 + tax for it.

 

[dyeager535]

$2698.00, plus tax locally.

You can get them here: http://www.gmparts247.com/ for $1964.99, no shipping. Of course, you still deal with the lift gate issue, but that's between $50-100.

I asked Radley how they can sell for that price, parts guy told me they buy those engines by the truckload, so they get a break on their price from GM.

 

[Big Ray]

Too bad they don't include a CPS plug. Not a huge fan of plastic timing covers, but I suppose as long as I don't catch the engine on fire I shouldn't worry.

I got the CPS plug for my engine from EFI Connection. It was around $10 shipped. Their site has upgraded. so I couldn't find them. I'm sure a call or e-mail from you would get you set.

 

[dyeager535]

I got the CPS plug for my engine from EFI Connection. It was around $10 shipped. Their site has upgraded. so I couldn't find them. I'm sure a call or e-mail from you would get you set.

I was able to find them, thanks. It took awhile, can't even recall where now on the site lol. Wonder if summit, jegs, etc. sell them too?

Found out there is a new-new intake gasket for the Vortec heads, my guess is that is probably where my coolant has been going, both previous styles are apparently problematic.

Oil pan, intake gaskets, one piece pan gasket, CPS plug, oil pump, I'll just keep adding parts.

 

[dyeager535]

Ordered 12530283 yesterday. $1965, no way I could beat that price building it myself.

Also ordered the M-99HV-S oil pump/pickup/shaft. This was a strange one. Summit/Jegs want $75. Pepboys on ebay got $45, no shipping. Even in-store their price is $49.
Emailing with George Richmond at Melling about this pump, it comes with a 70# spring in it, no extra springs. Any BBC pressure relief spring will fit however. I intend to purchase/run a 52#. If anyone else needs one, let me know...they only sell them in packs of 5 that I can find.

Saw all sorts of Vortec intake gasket horror stories, apparently the gaskets have been revised twice for good reason. The new ones appear to be steel coated in thick rubber, but only come in a $48 kit (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fel-ms98000t) which includes a couple unneeded gaskets for the Vortec CPI intake, along with ONE valve cover gasket(?!). Fel-Pro 1255 (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fel-1255) is not a steel/rubber gasket, however it is for Vortec heads and runs $25/pr. I will buy the 1255 and see what happens.

Waiting on the engine and oil pump first. Will verify the pump pickup depth once received, then order a 5qt (or more, we'll see) pan to match.

 

[1-ton]

Ordered 12530283 yesterday. $1965, no way I could beat that price building it myself.

Also ordered the M-99HV-S oil pump/pickup/shaft. This was a strange one. Summit/Jegs want $75. Pepboys on ebay got $45, no shipping. Even in-store their price is $49.
Emailing with George Richmond at Melling about this pump, it comes with a 70# spring in it, no extra springs. Any BBC pressure relief spring will fit however. I intend to purchase/run a 52#. If anyone else needs one, let me know...they only sell them in packs of 5 that I can find.

Saw all sorts of Vortec intake gasket horror stories, apparently the gaskets have been revised twice for good reason. The new ones appear to be steel coated in thick rubber, but only come in a $48 kit (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fel-ms98000t) which includes a couple unneeded gaskets for the Vortec CPI intake, along with ONE valve cover gasket(?!). Fel-Pro 1255 (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fel-1255) is not a steel/rubber gasket, however it is for Vortec heads and runs $25/pr. I will buy the 1255 and see what happens.

Waiting on the engine and oil pump first. Will verify the pump pickup depth once received, then order a 5qt (or more, we'll see) pan to match.

I wish I could put the same engine in my truck as the one you bought. Since I have to deal with smog issues, I cannot take a chance that a smog tech would get wise to having an OBD II engine installed in place of an OBD I engine. This would be a huge hassle. I know someone is going to say I can register my 1991 as a "classic vehicle", but even that comes with risks of being found out I swapped out an OBD I engine for an OBD II engine.

 

[dyeager535]

What is their concern? Simply OBDI vs II? I know CA is stupid and will do things like check casting numbers, but is NV that bad too? The dumb thing is you could make a two piece rear main motor into essentially a 12530283 legally I assume (NV doesn't have a process like CARB certification do you?), so why would/should they care if it's a newer, improved casting of the same basic architecture? Everything that affects emissions is essentially the same (displacement, stroke, etc) for the newer setups, yet the inferior earlier design that leads to used engine oil dripping on the ground everywhere is required. Idiots.

Funny, I've never heard of anyone prosecuted or fined for an engine that leaks oil, yet leaking oil is likely FAR worse than the minimally increased NOx and/or CO2 numbers that *might* result from a higher compression engine. Would be nice if someone could inject some sense into the rule-makers. Or better yet, vote them out.

 

[1-ton]

What is their concern? Simply OBDI vs II? I know CA is stupid and will do things like check casting numbers, but is NV that bad too? The dumb thing is you could make a two piece rear main motor into essentially a 12530283 legally I assume (NV doesn't have a process like CARB certification do you?), so why would/should they care if it's a newer, improved casting of the same basic architecture? Everything that affects emissions is essentially the same (displacement, stroke, etc) for the newer setups, yet the inferior earlier design that leads to used engine oil dripping on the ground everywhere is required. Idiots.

Funny, I've never heard of anyone prosecuted or fined for an engine that leaks oil, yet leaking oil is likely FAR worse than the minimally increased NOx and/or CO2 numbers that *might* result from a higher compression engine. Would be nice if someone could inject some sense into the rule-makers. Or better yet, vote them out.

in a Clark County Nevada visual emission inspection my truck has to have an EGR, CAT, and filler neck door flap. Then there is the sniff test after that. With a Vortec (OBD II) engine the heads have no provision for EGR ports, and the EGR has to be plumbed in using steel tubing ported into the exhaust manifold. If a smart enough smog tech saw that my EGR was not ported through the intake manifold like an OBD I engine is, they may start looking at the engine casting numbers, and see that they do not match an OBD I type engine. This then would be considered an "engine swap", which has to go to the referee station and verified for having the appropriate emission equipment for that engine.

 

[dyeager535]

Yep, Vortecs are a pain in that regard.

Have to build it yourself, but there are a fair number of aftermarket heads that are going to perform just as good as the Vortecs, but with no issue running EGR as yours is now.

Unfortunately I wasn't able to find a short block that made as much sense $-wise as this engine, so I ended up with stock Vortec heads again, but I'm sure you could find a decent short block, then slap on a good set of heads. I don't have emissions concerns here however, so EGR isn't an issue. Stupidly when I put the motor together, I paid for the external EGR parts, that was pretty pricey.

The aftermarket rebuilds/short/long blocks seem to be all over the place in terms of what people report as quality unfortunately, but I did notice that Schucks (O'reilly's) blocks/engines have ATK part numbers. Not sure ATK is amazing, but they don't appear to be fly by night either.

 

[1-ton]

Yep, Vortecs are a pain in that regard.

Have to build it yourself, but there are a fair number of aftermarket heads that are going to perform just as good as the Vortecs, but with no issue running EGR as yours is now.

Unfortunately I wasn't able to find a short block that made as much sense $-wise as this engine, so I ended up with stock Vortec heads again, but I'm sure you could find a decent short block, then slap on a good set of heads. I don't have emissions concerns here however, so EGR isn't an issue. Stupidly when I put the motor together, I paid for the external EGR parts, that was pretty pricey.

The aftermarket rebuilds/short/long blocks seem to be all over the place in terms of what people report as quality unfortunately, but I did notice that Schucks (O'reilly's) blocks/engines have ATK part numbers. Not sure ATK is amazing, but they don't appear to be fly by night either.

Edelbrock makes a set of aluminum direct replacement heads for the TBI swirl port engines my truck came with. They mill down the ramps a small amount to increase volume, but not so much as to effect the "swirl port" technology the heads come with. Add some bigger 2.02 intake vales and 1.60 exhaust valves, which they can come with, and this head could perform close to a Vortec head.

I remember "back in the day" rebuilding your own engine was cheaper than buying new, but with the major increase in machine shop pricing buying a new engine made in Mexico is cheaper. The plus to building your own small block engine is balancing the rotating assembly and screw in studs. I have had bad experiences in the past with the big rebuilders like ATK and Jasper.

 

[dyeager535]

Is any dipstick 1986 (lets say truck) and later interchangeable? Through the block, passenger side.

Having a hard time finding a non-chrome replacement, probably end up going GM on this. If an ~'86+ SBC truck dipstick is the same (through the block), I'll look that up. Thanks!

 

[Blue85]

Are you trying not to re-use anything from the old motor?

 

[dyeager535]

Are you trying not to re-use anything from the old motor?

Present motor is a two piece, drivers side stick (and a piece of junk at that) so in that case, no.

Waiting on a response from Comp to see if they recommend rebuilding my rocker arms (otherwise I'll run them as is) but rockers and intake are pretty much it that I can or want to reuse. I will probably hang onto the cam out of it (retrofit roller), but going to run the cam the new motor has installed.

 

[82355]

The newer dipsticks can be swapped around. I like to use the longer, t handle dipsticks in place of the older shorter dipsticks.

Martin.