RYOKEN HELP !!!!! My Dual Battery Install With Payoff pics (pics updated 2/18/08)

[muddermilitia]

Thanks for the info! I don't know much about batteries

 

[ryoken]

AGM's are not to be confused with gel's, different charging requirements....

looking good Ira..

 

[sandawgk5]

Do I need to run some sheet rubber underneath my upper bracket? I am thinking no because everything else is solid and there is zero tolerance side to side in this thing. The top bracket almost snaps in-place.

Dik

 

[sandawgk5]

Here is some Gell Cell and AGM info.

Gelled electrolyte

Gelled batteries, or "Gel Cells" contain acid that has been "gelled" by the addition of Silica Gel, turning the acid into a solid mass that looks like gooey Jell-O. The advantage of these batteries is that it is impossible to spill acid even if they are broken. However, there are several disadvantages. One is that they must be charged at a slower rate (C/20) to prevent excess gas from damaging the cells. They cannot be fast charged on a conventional automotive charger or they may be permanently damaged. This is not usually a problem with solar electric systems, but if an auxiliary generator or inverter bulk charger is used, current must be limited to the manufacturers specifications. Most better inverters commonly used in solar electric systems can be set to limit charging current to the batteries.
Some other disadvantages of gel cells is that they must be charged at a lower voltage (2/10th's less) than flooded or AGM batteries. If overcharged, voids can develop in the gel which will never heal, causing a loss in battery capacity. In hot climates, water loss can be enough over 2-4 years to cause premature battery death. It is for this and other reasons that we no longer sell any of the gelled cells except for replacement use. The newer AGM (absorbed glass mat) batteries have all the advantages (and then some) of gelled, with none of the disadvantages.
AGM, or Absorbed Glass Mat Batteries

A newer type of sealed battery uses "Absorbed Glass Mats", or AGM between the plates. This is a very fine fiber Boron-Silicate glass mat. These type of batteries have all the advantages of gelled, but can take much more abuse. We sell the Concorde (and Lifeline, made by Concorde) AGM batteries. These are also called "starved electrolyte", as the mat is about 95% saturated rather than fully soaked. That also means that they will not leak acid even if broken.
AGM batteries have several advantages over both gelled and flooded, at about the same cost as gelled:

Since all the electrolyte (acid) is contained in the glass mats, they cannot spill, even if broken. This also means that since they are non-hazardous, the shipping costs are lower. In addition, since there is no liquid to freeze and expand, they are practically immune from freezing damage.
Nearly all AGM batteries are "recombinant" - what that means is that the Oxygen and Hydrogen recombine INSIDE the battery. These use gas phase transfer of oxygen to the negative plates to recombine them back into water while charging and prevent the loss of water through electrolysis. The recombining is typically 99+% efficient, so almost no water is lost.
The charging voltages are the same as for any standard battery - no need for any special adjustments or problems with incompatible chargers or charge controls. And, since the internal resistance is extremely low, there is almost no heating of the battery even under heavy charge and discharge currents. The Concorde (and most AGM) batteries have no charge or discharge current limits.
AGM's have a very low self-discharge - from 1% to 3% per month is usual. This means that they can sit in storage for much longer periods without charging than standard batteries. The Concorde batteries can be almost fully recharged (95% or better) even after 30 days of being totally discharged.
AGM's do not have any liquid to spill, and even under severe overcharge conditions hydrogen emission is far below the 4% max specified for aircraft and enclosed spaces. The plates in AGM's are tightly packed and rigidly mounted, and will withstand shock and vibration better than any standard battery.
Even with all the advantages listed above, there is still a place for the standard flooded deep cycle battery. AGM's will cost 2 to 3 times as much as flooded batteries of the same capacity. In many installations, where the batteries are set in an area where you don't have to worry about fumes or leakage, a standard or industrial deep cycle is a better economic choice. AGM batteries main advantages are no maintenance, completely sealed against fumes, Hydrogen, or leakage, non-spilling even if they are broken, and can survive most freezes. Not everyone needs these features.

Dik

 

[sandawgk5]

Got my 9002e switch in today

The bolts are temporary and I realized the cable runs will be way shorter than I thought







I also got some latches for the lid rather than using bolts through the top.




I will put one on each side of the lid where the lid will be split. There will be a piece that overlaps the two portions of the lid and the little J clip will be welded to that with the latch portion welded to the box itself.

Dik

 

[NorCalKid]

looking good

 

[sandawgk5]

A little more progress today but sorry no pics. I got the floor of the truck primed and painted with some cheap ass Gloss White. I wanted to cover the bare steel up as it looked like it was gonna rain and my truck likes to collect water. I also got the holes drilled for routing my cables out of the box and through the floor of the truck.

I learned that HF hole saws suck Donkey Balls. They cut the plexi fine but I tried to use it on the box to cut the holes for the penetrators and all it did was walk around and round all of the teeth off. Once that happened it would not even cut the steel floor in the truck.

I had to "drill" the holes in a creative way. I marked the size of the hole I needed with a scribe and using a 1/8" drill bit I drilled around the line repeatedly until I had gone all the way around and then I connected the dots with the drill bit and knocked the plug out. It was kinda like perforating a knockout. I then used a 1/2" drill bit as a mill and smoothed the edge of the hole out so the penetrators would fit snuggly. The first one I did in the truck is a little egg shaped but I can seal it will some silicone caulking or something.

I also finished the battery hold down and it can know atually perform its intended task. I need to weld my hinges to the lid and attach it to the box, mount my latches and make my cables. I got a Bernz-o-matic propane plumbers torch and 2 lbs of solder and a tub of flux so it should go pretty fast. If it werent for Daytona on Sunday I would probably be done this weekend.

Almost forgot once I have the lid and latches on it all needs to come apart and get a final sanding to smooth welds and knock off all the spatter then it will be painted. The inside is cheap flat black and the outside is Rustoleum Hammered Black

Dik

 

[sandawgk5]

Left work early today and got some more done.

I finally got the lid split and welded on to the box. I warped the **** out of the lid because I suck at thin stuff but they still open and close. The hinges just get a little tight.

Only 2 pics today as something was wrong with the camera. The something was my kids were playing with it and filled the memory card with pictures of the carpet in the house. I did not know because I broke the screen on it so the only way to tell what is on the card is to put it in the computer and I was lazy.




My latches did not work well so I scraped that idea and still need to find a way to keep the lid(s) closed. I might just make a bolt plate on the inside and bolt through the lid into the plate. I was pretty frustrated after that so I helped my daughter finish cutting the A/C and heat. The firewall is not clean and all of the wiring and vacuum lines for the A/C and heat have been removed. I also started removing all of the useless wireing under the dash (rear speakers, dome lights, underdash lights, Cigarette lighter) Basically all of the stuff I dont use.

Any ideas you guys have for keeping the lids shut is appreciated. I would like it to be fairly inexpensive but I am open to suggestions.

Sorry for the large pic but it is a jacked up file.

Dik

 

[readymix]

Weld a bar across the top inside of the box and use a few Dzus fasteners.

 

[sandawgk5]

Well I devised a way to keep the lid shut.



It is some angle I had laying around. I welded it on shut the lids and drilled through the whole lot. I then put a bolt and nut through it and tacked the nut in place. I went a little over kill and all of my fasteners are grade 8 even the ones that hold my switch in place.

I ground all of the welds flush and rounded the corners. That took me almost 2 hours just to do that. I also got all but 1 side primed and the inside painted with 2 coats of flat black. I think I need to shoot some more but it really sucks to paint inside the box. It is really hard to see.

Between coats I worked inside the truck and got all but 1 set of lines removed from the wiring harness that are no longer needed. I decided to leave the Cig lighter for cell phone charging and since it was its own lead it was easy. I have to pull the fuse block off of the firewall and remove the seatbelt buzzer lines that went to the seat belt. That is my last 2 wires.

Slowly I am making progress and am trying not to get too frustrated. I got to get it done before the 29th so I can make it to TDS Safari in Ocotillo.

Dik

 

[sandawgk5]

Got the outside painted during commercials of the race today. I should be ready for install and running of cables tomorrow. Yeah holidays

Dik

 

[sandawgk5]

Well I got it all in and wired today. I ended up going ghetto and crimping as I tried soldering and all I did was melt the insulation. The wire would barely go into the lug without any solder and I could not get them together at all.


Here is what the box looks like now with batteries, switch and wiring


And here is the cable routing path.




Dik

 

[readymix]

Looking good.

 

[sandawgk5]

Here are some more pictures of the day.

Firewall wiring


Positive cable goes to the solenoid. Then a lead goes down to the terminal post below. The charge wire and fusible link are also on that terminal. The ground goes to the terminal on the right and then along the frame to the factory ground on the smog pump bracket.

This is a picture of how the ground is run along with my winch cables. Yes they will be redone most likely moving the solenoids to the firewall and then running leads from the solenoid pack along the frame to the winch.


Finally a pic of the starter wiring.

I ran it through the tube at the rear of the engine block with the knock sensor wire.

Know for the problem. I have power to everything but the starter. I have my power windows and locks back as well as all gauges and lights but no starter when I hit the key. I do not think my solenoid on the firewall is being triggered. The starter is wired with a jumper from the S terminal to the main lug.

Is it possible I mounted the remote solenoid upside down?

Help me I need this thing to move so I can do my wifes brakes before the Mother In Law comes down in 2 days.

Enjoy the pics.

Dik

 

[readymix]

Phone call on the way

 

[readymix]

You need a ground on the other side of the solenoid trigger.

 

[77crewcab]

Is your relay internal or external ground? Do you have a DVOM to use? Try hooking a ground wire to the other small terminal on the relay and see if it make it work.

 

[77crewcab]

Doh.. too late!

 

[AZ79K5Project]

Pretty slick. Where did you pick up the battery cabling? If you posted it, I missed it.

 

[sandawgk5]

Pretty slick. Where did you pick up the battery cabling? If you posted it, I missed it.

I got it off ebay from a guy out your way. It is for amplifier power

Dik