Ryoken's Guide to Rust Treatment and Bodywork 101

[ryoken]

well, it's definitely "proud" above the dent area... i don't know how to specify, maybe 1/8 to 3/16 extra.. cheesegraters are usually good on large shallow dent areas, like on a door.. where doing it in one app is preferable.. not EVERY time you do mud work...

and it works well with body fillers, fiberglass fillers, not as much..

don't worry about it, get a sand block, some 36 and 80 grit... you wann rip it close with 36, just a tad high, then take out the 36 scratches with 80 grit and that leaves ya just about right...

 

[ryoken]

couple other points too... i seem to be getting the feeling you think the filler is supposed to be perfectly filling the dent, with little sanding... thats not the case.. your always trying to do the repair in one app if possible, and sometimes if your going right to 36 on a block, your sanding your arse off...

also fillers should always be carried a reasonable amount past the dent... when you block, you'll see what's high and low, by whats being cut by the paper.. if you've blocked it out with 36, and you still have low spots, it needs to be refilled...

 

[Chief Brody]

also fillers should always be carried a reasonable amount past the dent...

When you are finished sanding, should the filler still feather out beyond the dent, or should it be perfectly flat and very close to the outside edges of the dent?

In other words, if I patch a dent the size of a baseball, should the filler still be spread out as big as a football when I am done? or will it look like a perfectly even flat baseball sized spot of filler?

 

[ryoken]

thats a little bit of a loaded question, but generally it'll be just a tad bigger... but all dents are not created equal... you may think it's the size of a baseball..

like i said, crossblocking will reveal that.. bodywork is 80% visual, you watch how , where and why it's sanding.. the other 20% is feel.. but you need to watch what the block is doing, cuts thru in one spot to bare steel, move on, concentrate on the other areas...

keep in mind too, a dent doesn't always just make things low... a dent stretches the metal, it has to go somewhere.. it's VERY common for the surrounding area to have a high spot, as that dent area had to move the steel somewhere.. it's not uncommon at all for me, once the dent is ground out, to lightly tap the whole surrounding area of the dent with a body hammer or spoon.. even a shrinking hammer...

not every time, but often..

also... filler should always end on steel, never feather right into paint.. this is a function of making sure you grind a nice large area.. going well past what you "think" is the dent....

 

[Chief Brody]

What kind of welder is needed to lay a bead in that crack?

Could I do it with some kind of lead or solder thing? If not, what kind of welder do I need to seek out? MIG, TIG...

And this is a loaded question as well...the sandpaper I got at Harbor Freight doesn't last three rubs before it is clogged...I know you recommend 3M, but what should I get if I can't find the stuff you like?

 

[ryoken]

MIG would be the most often used... that could easily be done with one of the cheaper 110 units...

if you where going to lead it, you might as well put shorthair in it instead...

 

[Chief Brody]

MIG would be the most often used... that could easily be done with one of the cheaper 110 units...

if you where going to lead it, you might as well put shorthair in it instead...

I need to get the welder guy to weld my striker bolt mount anyway...

 

[Chief Brody]

Also...you know the reason I want to grind the rail tops down is because I found a little rust under the filler...if I grind that all the way down and find something more serious, what are my options besides replacing a whole quarter panel...

By the way, thank you for your help! This is the very reason I became a registered member of this forum. This kind of information and help is invaluable...because you can't buy it.

Since it appears many are watching this thread, I will put forth my best effort to post pics all along the process...as I grind it down with 36 this Saturday and every step afterwards...I'll pick up a can of creamy before then also...as for the welder...I am not sure where to look for a good automotive welder.

 

[ryoken]

well, the reason for the failure was, as I've mentioned in here MANY times, rust never sleeps... once the top is pretty much machine stripped, you need to blast those pits on top as clean as the side is.. none of that black spotting in the pits... THAT is why that prior coating bubbled...

it's doubtful you'll find anything worse than that top bedrail on the majority of the qrter, other than maybe some mud here or there..... if there where, you'd probably see it...

 

[ryoken]

oh, and you can't buy it... as long as people appreciate the hard-earned wisdom, it's all theirs...


I just refuse to delve it out to unappreciative work punks that have NO comprehension of the volume of bodywork minutia I know.. and the YEARS it took to acquire...

for our water-fearing Chief, anytime...

 

[Chief Brody]

Just to clarify....when I get down to bare metal and ready to put some filler on...put primer on first?
then filler...and when correct, put more primer on and then paint?

never put filler into bare metal?

 

[ryoken]

well, that depends on the primer.. there are epoxies that are ok with filler on them, but generally, no, clean raw steel, filler, sand, prime..

if by chance you are going to use zinc chromate, DO NOT put filler on zinc...

 

[Chief Brody]

if by chance you are going to use zinc chromate, DO NOT put filler on zinc...

OK...so I need to blast off that zinc chromate I sprayed on there because I sprayed it into the little pits and all last weekend

 

[ryoken]

it's fine for temporary protection, but yeah, zinc does not like filler on it...

keep in mind too, that if it's just pinhole stuff, thats usually pretty shallow... generally if it's zinc-d, good heavy coat of fill prime on that, little glazing putty and reprime will usually take care of it... and that way you've got zinc as the base... for dented, low areas, disregard that..

 

[Chief Brody]

Geez...I had to drive all over the place to find the right stuff....hope I got the right stuff...

I got the quart of USC Duraglas at NAPA, but they didn't have the white cream hardener that came with it...they kept telling me that all hardener is the same...red, blue, whatever.

I then drove all over looking for white cream hardener because I didn't believe them...I got real lucky and found a tube that is white...I just hope it's the right stuff.

Then I was looking for two-stage glazing and nobody had it...counter guys said "I've never used a two-stage...don't know why you would need that"...So after driving some more, I found a Carquest that was open and they had only one kind of Glaze that had a hardener with it...

 

[ryoken]

your golden....


all polyester hardener is the same, just a cream MEKP hardener.. tho certain fillers having certain color hardeners does help in notating how hot the batch is gonna be by it's color change... the guy is still a douche for not having the tube FOR that Duraglass... shoulda gave ya a discount

remember, small batches till your comfortable with filler/hardener ratios..


and the other guy... dumbarse, god I hate people that work in retail.. ya got no skills, how hard is it to know the products your selling?.... yeah, sure use 1970's nitrostain putty, wheren't too many shrinking issues with that crap.. frikkin moron, try joining at least the 80's...

and be real careful how hot you kick the putty when ya get to that, it's VERY subceptable to kicking quick, due to the smoothness of it... and also don't forget, once you have the duraglass "right", make a small batch of duraglass to hard drag over any pinholing you may have with multiple angles.... it's worth it, and way stronger than filling tons with the putty... keep the putty to a minimum...

 

[Chief Brody]

Maybe I am getting ahead of myself, but when I get ready to fill that inside bedrail with the pits, should I maybe take some filler on my finger and "push" it into those pits and try to fill them? I was wondering if "wiping" it on with a plastic blade wouldn't leave an air bubble in there?

 

[ryoken]

thats why you cross drag things... you want to apply the same batch twice... hard drag it multi-directional to fill the holes... it should be thin at that point, just kinda in the holes, with a bit of thin smearing on the unpitted metal, then go back right after, and give the whole thing a skim coat.. wet on wet...

did ya catch my edit on the last post?

 

[Chief Brody]

thats why you cross drag things... you want to apply the same batch twice... hard drag it multi-directional to fill the holes... it should be thin at that point, just kinda in the holes, with a bit of thin smearing on the unpitted metal, then go back right after, and give the whole thing a skim coat.. wet on wet...

Ok...new terminology..."cross drag"...and "wet on wet"...multi directional I get, but does that mean load the blade and wipe once in one direction, then load the blade and wipe in a different direction....or can you load the blade and wipe in one direction and then wipe in another direction with the blade without loading it?

I'm trying to make sure I understand this completely before I attempt it...I have a feeling this is why I have failed in the past...I used to make batches so "hot" it was like clay as I was spreading it...

How forgiving is this stuff if it takes you multiple wipes to get it where you want it?

 

[Chief Brody]

you want to apply the same batch twice... hard drag it multi-directional to fill the holes...

OK...I think I see...you press really hard and work it into the holes, moving in many different directions..."shaving" off excess until the holes are filled...then you "cover coat" it with a thicker wipe from the rest of that same batch?