What's new
CK5
Register an account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members.

The Willomet Charger

A desecration to Mopar nuts everywhere, this is my protouring, LS-powered, 1970 Dodge Charger; built at my shop, Willomet Motor & Fabrication.
Overview Gallery Discussion
I'm a realist. A 440 or hemi would be badass, however would probably triple your engine budget. Unless you managed to find a newer hemi dirt cheap and then tuning it with factory EFI etc is a pain. I'm not a molar guy even though I really like them, they are big bucks and were in the era of 200k dollar hemi cars with other big block mopar not far behind. You got that 6.0 cheap, I for one support your engine choice.
 
AgDieseler said:
I sincerely appreciate your vote of confidence. I'm excited to indulge in the details. As for my planned power plant, your feedback (as well as Ducato's) is probably the most polite I'll ever receive.

This will be a car stuck between worlds - sacrilegious to the Mopar crowd, and waaaay too much unibody and coke bottle styling for the GM guys. It will never truly belong. Each side will deride and ridicule, as they are entitled, but hopefully they do so while looking at my tail lights or their higher ETs.

For me, speed and function come first. I've always loved the lines of this car, and dreamed of owning and driving one, but drivetrain has always been negotiable. As I get older, brand purity has become less useful.

For this car, the engine is a tool; one that will deliver the required torque and power across a broad RPM range so I can meet my ET goals and defeat my competitors. It will be compact and lighter than a 440 and allow for a low(er) center of gravity, it will be easier to recess into the firewall for improved weight distribution, it will be able to withstand sustained boost pressure up to 12psi, it will be easy to service and have a wide availability of parts, and it will be built by me with help from my family and friends.

A built LS will achieve those goals, and I got one for cheap.

In terms of design, I think of something David Freiburger has said/written a few times - "I’d rather be hated than ignored and risky rather than safe."

This is where my stubbornness kicks in...

David
Click to expand...

All very good points! :cool:

I will be watching and cheering you on through out the build. :thumb:
 
JoshHefnerX said:
That's why I asked about the newer hemi, but you gotta admit the LS's are pretty freakin awesome. And looking at your builds so far you've done a fantastic job, and done it w/ passion and attention to detail. So I'm sure this will turn out to be freakin awesome too.
Click to expand...

David, if you're looking for polite feedback I'll echo this sentiment. I don't see anything wrong with your engine choice, I think the end product will be neat, and your obsessive level of attention to detail and quality workmanship guarantees that the car will well earn its future praise. You're good at planning out an idea and then bringing it to life, so I don't see how you could go wrong here.
 
And I'll also add that preemptively re-welding the body welds "just in case" the factory screwed them up 40 years ago is what separates your work from the other 99% of builders. When you're done it will be much better than the day it was new. :bow:
 
AgDieseler said:
See also: OCD, and its uses. And, a sincere 'thank you'.

David
Click to expand...

Hahaha. Yes, OCD is definitely present. My work will never see that level of devotion, I take a much more pragmatic approach to things (I would have waited until AFTER the body panels started flexing to fix the welds :rolleyes:). My hat will stay tipped in your direction. :bow:

And yer welcome. It was an honor to meet you and your work both. :D
 
Just a bunch of new sketches for the front suspension and chassis.

We're a few weeks away from completing the addition to the house, which has been my main focus since completing the suburban intercooler project. Until then, it's best to stay focused on the house that is all-consuming.

Seriously, the new toilet is being stored in the car.

David
 
My chassis thoughts in general...

The frame stubs are not rigidly connected to the rocker boxes, so the body ends up doing some of the resistance to twist. There are old stories of dudes doing wheel stands or cornering hard and wrinkling the roof skin or cracking a windshield.

A significantly enlarged rocker box with direct tie in to the frame rails is the start. Rather then doing the traditional straight frame connector, I like the idea hugging the powertrain and creating a large torque box by tying into the rocker. This also leaves room for shear plates across and under the trans and engine.

Sketches from the plane (I always carry a small moleskine for quick sketches and notes). Upper is a top view; lower is a front view of the passenger side rocker and rail.
IMG_8227.JPG

For reference, note the addition of factory Hemi/6-pack torque boxes and straight frame connectors - this is the semi bolt-on route.
IMG_0771.JPG

So, I'll be cutting out the entire floor.

David
 
Last edited:
as i may have mentioned before, i was pretty into mustangs for a few years, the fox body was arguably more flimsy than a charger would be, if i was building it like you are, id just do some welded in straight frame connectors and supports. should be plenty. are you using a tubular k member for the front?
 
I do recall you mentioned a fox body addiction, and that feedback is helpful.

I've done a few chassis bench builds, and right now I'm on a thought train to build it 50x more rigid than it is currently - about as stiff as GM's alpha platform. I'm committed to this as an exercise to see if I can build at a high level.

David
 
AgDieseler said:
We're a few weeks away from completing the addition to the house, which has been my main focus since completing the suburban intercooler project. Until then, it's best to stay focused on the house that is all-consuming.

Seriously, the new toilet is being stored in the car.

David
Click to expand...

We have more in common than I ever realized. :haha:
 
RubberFloorMat said:
are you attempting to avoid a roll cage setup and just do it under the car?
Click to expand...
I'm thinking that I will build the lower chassis and measure the improvement (deflection at opposite corner with a 2200 ft-lb torque applied across the suspension centerline).

There is a 10' stick of 2x3 ready to go....now, I just have to find someone to measure while I hang my 220lbs off the end.

I just want whatever cage I build to be as simple and as unobtrusive to passenger ingress/egress as possible, and a stiff lower chassis goes a long way toward that goal. I think.

What has been your experience?

David
 
AgDieseler said:
I'm thinking that I will build the lower chassis and measure the improvement (deflection at opposite corner with a 2200 ft-lb torque applied across the suspension centerline).

There is a 10' stick of 2x3 ready to go....now, I just have to find someone to measure while I hang my 220lbs off the end.

I just want whatever cage I build to be as simple and as unobtrusive to passenger ingress/egress as possible, and a stiff lower chassis goes a long way toward that goal. I think.

What has been your experience?

David
Click to expand...


well ive had three cars with cages, and been around a ton more. No bolt in cage, even one made specifically for your model will be right, a custom cage is only slightly more expensive, and since you are wanting chassis rigidity rather than having to comply with NHRA etc you can play around. HOWEVER. i think at minimum you will need a 6 point, but i would honetly try and not do a front halo bar, id do some down kickers from midpoint of your main hoop, and drop them low past your seat as far forward as you can. with a pillar-less vehicle like a charger, you wont be able to hide a cage. Now, again if it was me, id see just how close you can get to your goal of rigidity under the car first, that way you can possibly avoid the obtrusive cage. for your goals, id look at something like this honestly. http://www.schwartzperformance.com/mopar-b-body-chassis-full-frame/

also i dont mean buy theirs, but replicate and improve or change to your specs.
 
RubberFloorMat said:
I dont mean buy theirs, but replicate and improve or change to your specs.
Click to expand...
Really appreciate your thoughts, and I agree with you on the "see what's out there and what makes sense and make your own version" train of thought. There are some really nice ready-to-roll frames out there - Art Morrison, Roadster Shop, Schwartz Performance - and they are all 15K-20K, which is more than I want to drop at a single moment; one more reason to build it myself one piece at a time, spreading that cost over several months.

On the front halo bar delete - I'm onboard as long as I can achieve my goal of significantly improved beam strength. Looking at the cage in Chris Alston's G-Chassis, I don't mind a halo bar and down bars, as long as they are tucked up very close to the A pillars and tied in with a plate since no trim would every fit in that narrow space:
CAC_Camaro_PS-front-angle_PRKR.jpg


Here's the chassis that really lit the bulb for me, and a general design I'd like to follow:
IMG_8757-1024x683.jpg


Everything is 10ga steel. Rockers are enlarged, and the torque box connectors are exaggerated versions of the factory Hemi/6-pack versions. This lightens the load on any subframe connector and allows a normal floor profile. Art Morrison uses vertical 2x3 for the inner floor structure, but has smaller front and rear torque boxes.

With a few twists and turns aside, I'm thinking these are the next few steps to the build while on the body cart:
  • Get body perfectly level and off the casters - all work done in a fixed position
  • Measure deflection
  • Reinforce the box shape of the body with a bunch of temporary 1" square tube
  • Cut out the main floor from the firewall just below the wiper motor to the footwell of the back seats
  • Reinforce the exposed frame stubs to the temporary tube structure, remove the torsion bar crossmember
  • Build and install new rocker and torque box structure, tying into frame stubs
  • Plate the factory frame stubs with 14ga steel (like the unibody XJ folks) - brings the average thickness of the frame to 10ga
  • Build out the inner frame structure and floor supports from the rockers
  • Remove inner box structure reinforcements
  • Measure deflection
if required
  • Build 6 point cage
  • Measure deflection
  • Add halo bar, a-pillar down bars, front suspension down bars
  • Measure defelction
From there, I figure to start the general process of fitting the powertrain, hang the front and rear suspensions, and fabricate the firewall, tubs, and floor.
Chevy305 said:
I read this article in Hot Rod Magazine and thought it could inspire:
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/one-car-garage-wonder/
Click to expand...
You're thinking exactly the same way I am. Lots of patience, nights and weekends, friends and a few beers. I'm not setting any timeline goals at this point, but I do look forward to a progress-filled Texas winter.

David
 
Last edited:
I haven't read the rules but you're going to be drag racing this right? Is a halo bar going to be required?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest Posts

Top Bottom