If given the choice between new stock springs and a compression style shackle vs a custom spring and a tension shackle ( factory type). Custom springs wins
CK5
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Time to build a suspension... (looking for input on springs)
- Thread starter campfire
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- awesome suspension
You're fine, it just can be confusing when it turns into cross-posting. You did remind me to update this one.
The reason I mentioned ORD is that (as I recently discovered) they offer a sway bar correction kit that probably fits your needs if you do decide to run it.
That's kinda what I was thinking, Eric. I'd give Luke's method a try if the springs were in good shape, but they're bent down to the overleafs when unloaded. When do you decide that a set of springs has outlived its usefulness?
Getting this thread back on topic...
Haven't bought anything yet, still tossing ideas around. Flipping the back will throw off the angle and slightly bump it forward, yes? I have a set of zero-rates already, so correcting it an inch or two isn't an issue, but the stock springs are pretty saggy. There is a chance I'll wind up replacing them anyway, and redoing the shackle bracket is a bunch of extra work if I were to do the springs anyways.
I was thinking of trying out Luke's plan of recycling the stock hangers for the flip (which has gotta be the easiest & most redneck option), but buying one set of springs and solving both problems at the same time might be a better use of my time. If I buy the flip bracket AND a set of stock springs, it's not much cheaper than simply buying a set of springs for the stock hanger.
most shackle flip brackets (ORD DIY) compensate for that angle change and bump forward in thier design already. Thats the thing about fabbing your own that can be a pain.
That's kinda what I was thinking, Eric. I'd give Luke's method a try if the springs were in good shape, but they're bent down to the overleafs when unloaded. When do you decide that a set of springs has outlived its usefulness?
if their bent like that. esp if its the main leaf
1) custom with stock shackle, best way when talking low lift
2) OMG throw those springs out lol
2) OMG throw those springs out lol
The location of the bracket doesn't bug me, but the location of the axle hasta move forward, right? And the angle of the axle is thrown off? And the bracket swap requires removing the fuel tank? Custom springs are sounding pretty nice right now...
You might say that till you have to take those bolts out of that shackle.
Actually if you get custom springs get new shackles and remove the rear suspension with the blue tipped wrench
Actually if you get custom springs get new shackles and remove the rear suspension with the blue tipped wrench
Personally having done 4 shackle flips that I can remember off the top of my head over the years...if I ever did another one I would do a 1-2 inch shackle flip bracket with ORD custom 2 inch lifted 56 inch springs and thier heavy duty greasable shackles..give me 4 inches of lift mabe 5 and I'd hog the fenders for what ever else I needed to fit the tires I wanted to run. I'd do a b52 kit in the front with another set of ORD springs/shackles and be done. That would be the perfect all around leaf spring set up IMHO.
So...why bother doing the flip AND springing for custom leaves? Seems like extra work/overkill to do both.
Like Eric said at the top of the page...the #1 reason the shackle flip was invented was never about first about lift. the flip was to correct the design flaws of the factory shackle setup and allow for a compression shackle over the tension shackle. The fact that you could get lift out of it was just a bonus. #2 allows you to do all urethane grommets with grease fittings at each (the most underrated never talked about best mod for leaf spring suspensions). Custom springs for the same reason except directed at the springs. A custom spring gets you tapered ends, teflon pads, better steel, stronger eyes, and the exact lift you want in the spring, all with the spring rate you want so it flexes like you want it to. Spreading the lift between the two lets you not have to build 1 part to do all the stuff..IE if your lift is all in the spring then the spring HAS to be at least stiff enough to lift the truck X amount... which limits the springs flexibility and causes problems when your spring gets old. If your lift is ALL in the shackle flip then your gonna have some angle issues with the pinion and be forced to run a long shackle, which is Kryptonite for a compression shackle setup.
I really like some of the brackets TNA has come up with: http://www.totallynakedauto.com/Suspension_s/1826.htm
I really like some of the brackets TNA has come up with: http://www.totallynakedauto.com/Suspension_s/1826.htm
Why is a tension shackle a bad thing? I thought Eric's comment was that he preferred to run custom springs with a tension shackle.
I wish this thread was around when I built my truck...
It would have been different, but that said I'm almost completely happy with my truck. I just need the rear setup properly to work like the front does, I also have the same goals for my truck as you do also.
It would have been different, but that said I'm almost completely happy with my truck. I just need the rear setup properly to work like the front does, I also have the same goals for my truck as you do also.
It isn't in some aspects it's better. more movement, more stability, less overhanging parts, more bump travel and less work. I wish I knew what I did now when I rebuilt my entire suspension, I would have stuck with a tension shackle and did custom springs.Why is a tension shackle a bad thing? I thought Eric's comment was that he preferred to run custom springs with a tension shackle.
Now that I have a shackle flip I'm going to try a set of 63's and the flip. I have heard with this setup I should be able to cycle 14 inches of travel, if It won't compliment the front 4 link I'm going tension shackle and custom springs.
Why bother doing it twice? I haven't done this yet, but my understanding is that running the 63s with the stock front pushes the axle further back. Am I wrong?
Because at the time I didn't know and fell into the shackle flip and stock springs are the shiiiiiznit and a set of 63's cost me $100 with some new brackets, the new design I should be into it no more then $250 that will net me cheap "long travel" and is a proven setup.
I'm not the greatest at explaining why things happen but this is a AWESOME read on leaf springs and how they work and what effects it will have.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/jeep-willys/2283090-leaf-spring-suspension-geometry.html
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63s also get alot of axle wrap and tend to bend just before the front eye. You can pretty much plan on a anti wrap bar.
I do not prescribe to one being better or worse. I used the think the flip was better cause you could run a flatter spring. When talking a flip if one had decent rear springs I will typically say run a flip. It's cheaper and it works.
In Ethan's case where he is gonna be buying new spring and considering his goals. I think custom springs with the stock shackle may provide a bit more highway stability. In addition to the fact there is no need to run a flatter spring with a custom spring as it is built for your truck.
You can also get into pivot points spring rates in relation to the shackle position but in all reality I don't think it makes much difference in the real world.
So my preference is for neither or both or neither
Link it
In Ethan's case where he is gonna be buying new spring and considering his goals. I think custom springs with the stock shackle may provide a bit more highway stability. In addition to the fact there is no need to run a flatter spring with a custom spring as it is built for your truck.
You can also get into pivot points spring rates in relation to the shackle position but in all reality I don't think it makes much difference in the real world.
So my preference is for neither or both or neither
Link it
Tension shackle is not bad it's just different. Compression shackle is not better it's also different. Both have limitations and don't work well with extremes in different ways.
