CK5
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what do you guys think of this efi kit?

I would LOVE a 4 barrel TBI on mine, if it wasnt such an expensive ordeal. I love the look of a carb, but not the functionality of one.
 
This thread is very interesting. It sounds like the aftermarket 4-barrel TBI systems are a little over-hyped for their performance. I am glad I am sticking with a stock modified factory TBI system for my truck from Vic Morse.

I'm about to place an order from morse. I'm not sure if I want the adjustable regulator. I tried to have a fuel pressure gauge in the system before, but the plumbing became a pain. Can you do anything but make things worse if you try to go by feel somehow (adjust and test drive, stuff like that)?
 
I'm about to place an order from morse. I'm not sure if I want the adjustable regulator. I tried to have a fuel pressure gauge in the system before, but the plumbing became a pain. Can you do anything but make things worse if you try to go by feel somehow (adjust and test drive, stuff like that)?

If you have Autozones, you can borrow their fuel pressure tester, and using it, monitor the fuel pressure as you adjust it. It's a set it and forget it deal. It's way more work, but you can also shim the factory FPR to bring the pressure up, IF the pump has any pressure left in it. Same would be true of an AFPR as well of course, the pumps maximum output is the limiting factor, not the FPR.

Adjusting fuel pressure without being able to monitor the ECM is pointless however. You can make things worse for cold engine operation and under heavy throttle where AFR is not being monitored. During cruise conditions it's unlikely changing fuel pressure would make any difference, as the ECM will use the O2 to keep mixture proper. If you had enough pressure you could overwhelm the ability of the ECM to pull fuel during closed loop operation, but most TBI fuel pumps don't seem capable of moving that much fuel.

Changing fuel pressure is a "global" change to the system, and is generally not recommended without re-tuning the ECM for the above reasons. You might make one area better, but another worse. GM spec was 9-13PSI, getting it to 12-13 would be beneficial however. I've heard others say that you can tell by how it runs around 9-10PSI that is not enough.
 
My Dynamic EFI is easy to re-tune if I wanted to. I also have it wired so I can plug in a sensor and read/log the pressure. I had it going that way for a while, but I decided to clean up my fuel routing, which previously was just hoses running down the top of the trans. I now have steel line and plugging in fuel pressure stuff is a PITA. I decided to keep it clean and get rid of the FP sensor which was a source of leaks at the adapter. Where do people plug in the Autozone one? Doesn't the factory routing involve all steel line a the TB?

Mostly I just want to make sure I'm at the high end of the PSI range, as you mention. I can buy a fancy adjustable from Morse, or take my chances with a parts store thing. I guess either way I don't know without measuring.
 
I haven't found a way to do it without getting a gas bath unfortunately. I did it at the frame, where the flexible lines connect to go to the engine. The flexible lines have enough give to get the adapter in there. I wanted to do it at the fuel filter, but the lines are too rigid (and clamped too often) to accomplish easily. The set autozone gave me didn't have enough hose to run the gauge into the cab to test drive, but I was still able to see what the FP was at idle, and adjust accordingly, up until the pumps maxed out.

I don't like trying to do it at the throttle body, too many stories of people stripping stuff out, potential for fuel leaks on the top of the engine, and if clamped properly, you have to bend the steel lines to make an adapter fit anyway.
 
I got an adapter fitting from Vic Morse, which screws into the fuel inlet side of my TBI, and the pressure gauge screws into that.

Yeah, that's what I got too. It sticks out further (it has to) and in my case left almost no clearance to connect to the end. Plus the NPT leaked, quite possibly due to operator error: too little torque = leaks, too much = cracked fitting = leak. Mine leaked, so I tightened it and cracked the fitting... :doah:
 
Did you have the little plastic sealing washer on the end of the adapter? That adapter interferes with the coil bracket.

My stuff is all non-standard since I replaced a carb. I actually still have the coil in cap. In my case, the Q-jet adapter I have on the manifold is a big flat thing and I suspect it sits up closer to those back fuel inlets than the later factory manifolds.
 
I'm considering whether to get that adjustable FPR when I order from Morse. I asked him whether it comes set to some nominal setting so I could use it as is for a while without having to adjust it. He said it's variable and depends on the fuel pump, etc. He's basically implying that I'd have to set it up, but why would it be different from factory style FPR in that regard? Isn't the whole point of the FPR to compensate (to the extent possible) for pump and other variation? My assumption was that the variation people see is related to cheap FPRs and with effort, someone could go through batches of them and pick out the 12 PSI ones. Am I missing something?

EDIT: Spotted this. 14 PSI seems a bit higher than I would have picked.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GM-TBI-14ps...ash=item3a9d30c445:g:d9cAAOSwkNZUgeF~&vxp=mtr
 
I'm considering whether to get that adjustable FPR when I order from Morse. I asked him whether it comes set to some nominal setting so I could use it as is for a while without having to adjust it. He said it's variable and depends on the fuel pump, etc. He's basically implying that I'd have to set it up, but why would it be different from factory style FPR in that regard? Isn't the whole point of the FPR to compensate (to the extent possible) for pump and other variation? My assumption was that the variation people see is related to cheap FPRs and with effort, someone could go through batches of them and pick out the 12 PSI ones. Am I missing something?

EDIT: Spotted this. 14 PSI seems a bit higher than I would have picked.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GM-TBI-14ps...ash=item3a9d30c445:g:d9cAAOSwkNZUgeF~&vxp=mtr

If you screwed the FPR adjust knob to barely seating this would leave the spring at factory pressure. The way Vic explained the FPR to me is that the FPR has no effect at all at idle and cruise. The ECM controls the amount of fuel, based on input readings, at idle and cruise. It is not until 3/4 to WOT that the ECM stops taking readings from the inputs, and goes into a fixed mode, thus allowing the increased pressure setting from the FPR to add more fuel than would the ECM normally add. Hope this helps.
 
FPR is a set it and forget it proposition, so adjustable IMO only makes it easier to set initially. There are enough variables in the FPR that simply changing the spring can't be a one-size fits all proposition. It may be close, or raise pressure higher if the spring is higher tension, but if it was possible to say X spring equals Y pressure, every truck would have exactly the same pressure off the assembly line, there wouldn't be a range of acceptable pressure.

I don't see fuel pump making a difference, X PSI is X PSI. I *suppose* if somehow the pump was able to overwhelm the return line in terms of volume then you might see higher pressure, but I suspect that is highly unlikely. Impossible with the stock TBI pump.

And Vic is being generic talking about FPR. It is true TO A POINT, which also assumes you don't have an open loop idle like some of the trucks run. The ECM can only compensate a minimum and maximum amount for too much or too little fuel during closed loop operation. Once you exceed the systems capability (programming capability, not physical limits edit: and there are physical limts of the injectors, which is why too big is as bad as too small) to add or subtract fuel, you will run into problems. It either runs lean or rich. If you are near the limit of the ECM's ability to add fuel under normal conditions, then add a trailer, you are going to run lean. Conversely, if you are rich under normal conditions, then add a trailer, fuel demand may be enough to get it back into a range the ECM can control. This is a cumulative effect. Swapping cams, intake, heads, etc., anything that increases the efficiency of the engine, is going to eat into the "margin" that is designed within the ECM's programming.

As a for-instance. Stock 454 TBI setup on a 454 with headers, mild "RV" cam, and Edelbrock dual plane intake resulted in fueling roughly 20% below what was necessary. The engine was running lean because there wasn't enough fuel being delivered. The only fix in that case is increasing fuel pressure, then correcting the numbers within the ECM programming to deal with the "artificially" increased flow rate of the injectors (which affects open loop operation), and the changed engine efficiency.

Not trying to make this more difficult than it is, but these things are complete systems. If you monkey with one aspect, it changes a host of others. Which may or may not result in differences you can tell, like better or worse idle, more or less power, more or less fuel economy, etc. Is it *likely* you will destroy an engine because you are running an AFPR? Of course not. But it IS going to change how it runs, and isn't how it runs why we like EFI?

Mess with fuel pressure if it's needed. Not because it's possible.
 
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Yeah, I think he's just saying that the computer attempts to adapt when in closed loop. My understanding is that if pressure is off, the required fuel pulse duration is either too long or too short. With low pressure it gets fuel starved. I don't understand the details enough to explain what goes wrong when pressure is too high, but it has to do with the computer desiring an extremely narrow fuel pulse.

Anyway, I think I'll just order a new spring and be done with it. I was asking Morse questions over email and he told me to stop emailing him. His answers were terse and I asked follow-ups. Kind of uncool IMO, so I'm just going to order his base throttle body and deal with the rest myself.
 
Yeah, I think he's just saying that the computer attempts to adapt when in closed loop. My understanding is that if pressure is off, the required fuel pulse duration is either too long or too short. With low pressure it gets fuel starved. I don't understand the details enough to explain what goes wrong when pressure is too high, but it has to do with the computer desiring an extremely narrow fuel pulse.

Anyway, I think I'll just order a new spring and be done with it. I was asking Morse questions over email and he told me to stop emailing him. His answers were terse and I asked follow-ups. Kind of uncool IMO, so I'm just going to order his base throttle body and deal with the rest myself.

I kind of enjoyed shimming the TBI FPR to increase pressure one shim at a time, but I understand not everyone enjoys that sort of thing. It got to the point however that it would have worked better to run a higher pressure pump (which there are plenty within the GM inventory that fit and work properly with TBI) so that minimal changes in spring tension made decent changes in pressure. As it was, the pump was already running near it's maximum PSI.
 
If you screwed the FPR adjust knob to barely seating this would leave the spring at factory pressure. The way Vic explained the FPR to me is that the FPR has no effect at all at idle and cruise. The ECM controls the amount of fuel, based on input readings, at idle and cruise. It is not until 3/4 to WOT that the ECM stops taking readings from the inputs, and goes into a fixed mode, thus allowing the increased pressure setting from the FPR to add more fuel than would the ECM normally add. Hope this helps.
This is assuming that the ECM adjusts the fuel trims to provide less fuel. Otherwise, you will still be too rich during all transient events. Of course it will be richer when you first make the adjustment and every time you have the battery disconnected. That is, unless you tune it. But the general consensus is that these things were tuned too lean from the factory anyway.
 
Well I bought the fitech system.

I went with the 600 hp kit because it comes with the digital readout and I wanted the unit black anodized.

This will also allow me to control timing if I ever head that route.

I'll be sure to report on my finding!
 
Thats the one i was leaning toward

The rebate is 25 bucks more then the 400hp so there really not that far apart in price. Plus if I get a wild hair to go ls in the future it'll be easier to sell.

I've read a ton on these units and everyone is very happy with their purchase.

I even saw some requests being made for a password on the digital unit....essentially wouldn't start unless you knew the password. Some people said you could just set the Rev limit to 500. Neat idea to keep tweakers from stealing the damn truck.
 
I'll be curious how it works for you. What's your thinking not going with a factory replacement system like Howell sells? Does the fitech use factory sensors?
 
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