What's new
CK5
Register an account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members.

What keeps me up at night...

Plus with a split there's no telling how much is going where and I'm sure we can all agree that an over full tank is BAD:eek1:
 
See, saddle tanks suck.

If it’s not a wheeler the crossover tube and a single pump is an option.
 
Excuse me if I repeat something already talked about, but I built a 71 bronco with a injected 302, I utilized both tanks using a Ford fuel switch valve that had both a suction and return, it also switch sending units and was electric.

My fuel pump was inline between engine and valve, worked perfect.

http://www.partdeal.com/pollak-moto...MIs7jCrP_v2QIV2I1-Ch2TOAelEAQYAyABEgLinvD_BwE

This was it, I don’t have the part number, but that’s what it looked like and how it operated
 
Last edited:
ClassicStyle said:
Excuse me if I repeat something already talked about, but I built a 71 bronco with a injected 302, I utilized both tanks using a Ford fuel switch valve that had both a suction and return, it also switch sending units and was electric.

My fuel pump was inline between engine and valve, worked perfect.

http://www.partdeal.com/pollak-moto...MIs7jCrP_v2QIV2I1-Ch2TOAelEAQYAyABEgLinvD_BwE

This was it, I don’t have the part number, but that’s what it looked like and how it operated
Click to expand...
Do you happen to know the size of the ports on it? As stated the flow is the issue I'd try this if it flows enough but it's hard to tell without throwing money at it
 
I don’t remember unfortunately, ill do some digging and see if I can find out,
I didn’t run it on anything ls related, but that was a Rousch built 302. It never had a fuel problem.
 
So I'm leaning toward using a couple relays signaled by the selector and two of these 3/8" fuel valves split off the 3/8 fuel return. It's not overly complicated and it eliminates the need for a surge tank that I don't think would work anyhow.
 
SpeedlabDan said:
I'm not sure if it's different from an 8.1 to say a 6.0 as far as fuel demands.
Click to expand...
The peak fuel demands of a stock 8.1 are probably similar to a 6.0, since the peak HP is similar. Sure, the 8.1 is using more fuel in the lower RPMs and the fuel maps are different, but as long as the pump can keep up at 6000RPM/WOT, it can keep up down low. RockAuto is showing the same AC Delco M10105 fuel pump for either engine option.
 
First off, doesn't matter if its 5.3, 6.0, or 8.1, fuel pressure requirements are the same. The difference comes in the injectors and what they are rated to depending on the spec of the motor, but the requirement for fuel pressure at the rail is going to be the same for all of them...just to clear that up.

Second, I can understand you are trying real hard to come up with some sort of solution to somehow keep a sector valve of some kind to run each saddle tank independent of each other (same as factory). But to be honest, it's kinda dumb. In all the research I did, there really is only two effective options to go about this on our trucks. It's either ditch the saddle tanks and install a 40 gal burban tank and run all new lines up to the motor as already mentioned. Or, it's the way I have gone which is make one tank your primary tank that feeds the motor, and just setup the other saddle tank as a storage/transfer tank. I have my driver tank that feeds the motor (mine were already TBI tanks). So I bought an EP381 pump and swapped it into my existing sending unit. Then got a little fancy with some adapters and a flaring tool and adapted the ports off the sending unit to accept -6AN fittings on both the feed and return ports. Then just ran -6AN lines for feed and return to my motor (have return style fuel rail on my 8.1). Then I took the passenger saddle tank, and hooked up a manual toggle switch to turn the fuel pump on and off, and a small separate fuel gauge to the sending unit, and ran a line from the supply line of the passenger tank over to the driver tank. So when I see on my cluster that the fuel is getting low in my main driver tank, I flip the switch on my passenger tank to transfer fuel over (and should be able to watch my small gas gauge hooked to the passenger tank drop as my main cluster gas gauge goes up), then when things are about full, turn the toggle switch off.

Now, I have not actually had the truck on the road yet, but I have tested my whole setup with gas in both tanks, and it seems to be working just fine at keeping correct fuel pressure at the rail (~60 psi) and also able to transfer the fuel just fine with no leaks.

I will admit, this is not the best solution to the problem, but it works. You just have to pay attention and not leave the toggle switch on to either overfill the driver tank, or let the passenger tank run dry and ruin that pump (oh, and FYI, in the passenger/transfer tank I just left the stock TBI pump in there to do the transferring). In all honesty, I truly believe the 40 gal Burban tank is the ends all be all. It's a bit more fab work to get the tank mounted in there, then running all new lines all the way at the back of the truck (and on a CCLB, that's a lot of fuel line, haha) and also have to figure out a filler tube as well, but in the end, it really is the way to go. I'll probably rock my saddle tanks for now, but in the future I can see myself swapping a burban tank and being done with it.

My $0.02 is all
 
Kay86K5 said:
First off, doesn't matter if its 5.3, 6.0, or 8.1, fuel pressure requirements are the same. The difference comes in the injectors and what they are rated to depending on the spec of the motor, but the requirement for fuel pressure at the rail is going to be the same for all of them...just to clear that up.

Second, I can understand you are trying real hard to come up with some sort of solution to somehow keep a sector valve of some kind to run each saddle tank independent of each other (same as factory). But to be honest, it's kinda dumb. In all the research I did, there really is only two effective options to go about this on our trucks. It's either ditch the saddle tanks and install a 40 gal burban tank and run all new lines up to the motor as already mentioned. Or, it's the way I have gone which is make one tank your primary tank that feeds the motor, and just setup the other saddle tank as a storage/transfer tank. I have my driver tank that feeds the motor (mine were already TBI tanks). So I bought an EP381 pump and swapped it into my existing sending unit. Then got a little fancy with some adapters and a flaring tool and adapted the ports off the sending unit to accept -6AN fittings on both the feed and return ports. Then just ran -6AN lines for feed and return to my motor (have return style fuel rail on my 8.1). Then I took the passenger saddle tank, and hooked up a manual toggle switch to turn the fuel pump on and off, and a small separate fuel gauge to the sending unit, and ran a line from the supply line of the passenger tank over to the driver tank. So when I see on my cluster that the fuel is getting low in my main driver tank, I flip the switch on my passenger tank to transfer fuel over (and should be able to watch my small gas gauge hooked to the passenger tank drop as my main cluster gas gauge goes up), then when things are about full, turn the toggle switch off.

Now, I have not actually had the truck on the road yet, but I have tested my whole setup with gas in both tanks, and it seems to be working just fine at keeping correct fuel pressure at the rail (~60 psi) and also able to transfer the fuel just fine with no leaks.

I will admit, this is not the best solution to the problem, but it works. You just have to pay attention and not leave the toggle switch on to either overfill the driver tank, or let the passenger tank run dry and ruin that pump (oh, and FYI, in the passenger/transfer tank I just left the stock TBI pump in there to do the transferring). In all honesty, I truly believe the 40 gal Burban tank is the ends all be all. It's a bit more fab work to get the tank mounted in there, then running all new lines all the way at the back of the truck (and on a CCLB, that's a lot of fuel line, haha) and also have to figure out a filler tube as well, but in the end, it really is the way to go. I'll probably rock my saddle tanks for now, but in the future I can see myself swapping a burban tank and being done with it.

My $0.02 is all
Click to expand...
You make a lot of sense, and when it comes down to it I really am being too much of a purist.
I feel the burb tank would be ideal other than I don't want unused fill doors everywhere :rotfl:
I do think the transfer idea would be much easier other than figuring out how to adapt to an6 as mentioned. I may do this as I would only be running one tank at a time anyway so it's not much of a hassle to just to add a momentary toggle and separate fuel guage.
Care to elaborate on how you flared/adapted to an fittings. as its my preferred method of fuel fittings. :cool:
 
SpeedlabDan said:
You make a lot of sense, and when it comes down to it I really am being too much of a purist.
I feel the burb tank would be ideal other than I don't want unused fill doors everywhere :rotfl:
I do think the transfer idea would be much easier other than figuring out how to adapt to an6 as mentioned. I may do this as I would only be running one tank at a time anyway so it's not much of a hassle to just to add a momentary toggle and separate fuel guage.
Care to elaborate on how you flared/adapted to an fittings. as its my preferred method of fuel fittings. :cool:
Click to expand...

Sure. First off, I did end up getting a new sending unit as I tried all this with the existing unit. The problem I found was the ports coming out of the top of the sending unit for feed, return, and vent were not long enough for me to be able to cut the end off, and have enough room to get my flaring tool on there. So I tried to "bend" the lines straight up to accomplish the flare, and then "bend" them back down. Problem was that created small cracks on the bend (as the metal is not very thick on those things) and once I turned the key on to prime the pump, they leaked all over. So I found on RockAuto a replacement sending unit, but one that had longer ports off the top that worked great (link to the sending unit I used here...you can see the tubes at the top extend farther than an average sending unit: https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=4304910&cc=1061895&jsn=567 and mind you that is a replacement TBI sending unit for my 1989 truck).

So with that out of the way, these are the other parts I got:

Cut the end of the feed line off the sending unit, and flared it with these on there:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/RUS-660571
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/RUS-660651

Cut the end of the return line off the sending unit, and flared it with these on there:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/EAR-581805ERL
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/EAR-581905ERL

Used this adapter on the feed line:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/EAR-981506ERL

Used this adapter on the return line:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/AER-FBM2755

Then just used these normal hose ends that bolt up to the adapter and then connect to flexible stainless braided hose in -6AN all the way up to the motor and back (with an aftermarket filter on the feed line obviously):
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/RUS-610025

link to hose I used:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-230620/overview/


And that was it. Let me know if that makes sense
 
Kay86K5 said:
Sure. First off, I did end up getting a new sending unit as I tried all this with the existing unit. The problem I found was the ports coming out of the top of the sending unit for feed, return, and vent were not long enough for me to be able to cut the end off, and have enough room to get my flaring tool on there. So I tried to "bend" the lines straight up to accomplish the flare, and then "bend" them back down. Problem was that created small cracks on the bend (as the metal is not very thick on those things) and once I turned the key on to prime the pump, they leaked all over. So I found on RockAuto a replacement sending unit, but one that had longer ports off the top that worked great (link to the sending unit I used here...you can see the tubes at the top extend farther than an average sending unit: https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=4304910&cc=1061895&jsn=567 and mind you that is a replacement TBI sending unit for my 1989 truck).

So with that out of the way, these are the other parts I got:

Cut the end of the feed line off the sending unit, and flared it with these on there:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/RUS-660571
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/RUS-660651

Cut the end of the return line off the sending unit, and flared it with these on there:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/EAR-581805ERL
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/EAR-581905ERL

Used this adapter on the feed line:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/EAR-981506ERL

Used this adapter on the return line:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/AER-FBM2755

Then just used these normal hose ends that bolt up to the adapter and then connect to flexible stainless braided hose in -6AN all the way up to the motor and back (with an aftermarket filter on the feed line obviously):
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/RUS-610025

link to hose I used:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-230620/overview/


And that was it. Let me know if that makes sense
Click to expand...
Damn man you rock!!! Hope this helps others as well but I'll be putting these parts together soon as in the next couple weeks I'll have the engine and trans pulled and I'm gonna start the np205 rebuild and conversion to the Allison. Very stoked!
 
And FYI, 20 ft of the hose was exactly perfect to run the hose from the driver tank, up the outside of the frame rail (keeping it away from exhaust and just zip tied up) to the fuel rail and back. I’d recommend making the return line first, as the feed line will be just a tad longer as you will cut it in half to install a little filter which will increase the overall length of the line by just a tad. I did my feed line first and ended up i vut the libe just a smidge shorter on the return line and its a tight fit length wise to reach the fuel rail. It works, but everytime I take them off and pit them back on I always curse myself that I didnt make the return line 1” longer, haha. Just food for thought really. It aint rocket science, but a couple tricks I learned after doing it
 
And I used these little fittings on the return style fuel rail and the -6an hose ends just bolt right up to them both:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/RUS-644113

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/RUS-644123

I cant seem to find a link to the fuel filter I used, but there are plenty little aftermarket ones that have -6an male ends on either side of them. Then just get 2 extra hose ends that I linked above, and cut the feed line in a desirable spot that you want your filter to be, and bolt them up
 
Now, if you have a 2004+ 8.1, its going to have a returnless style rail. In that case, you can try the corvette filter route (those filters are also a regulator, on one side of it, it has a feed and return, on the other side, its just one line running up to the fuel rail). Many people have gone that route and it works fine. My original motor was a return style rail, so it made more sense to go this route. And the new 8.1 I’m putting in my truck is an 05, but since I already have my lines set up for return style, I’m just swapping my return style rail onto the 05 and calling it good
 
Kay86K5 said:
Now, if you have a 2004+ 8.1, its going to have a returnless style rail. In that case, you can try the corvette filter route (those filters are also a regulator, on one side of it, it has a feed and return, on the other side, its just one line running up to the fuel rail). Many people have gone that route and it works fine. My original motor was a return style rail, so it made more sense to go this route. And the new 8.1 I’m putting in my truck is an 05, but since I already have my lines set up for return style, I’m just swapping my return style rail onto the 05 and calling it good
Click to expand...
Hmm maybe I should grab that return less system from you n I can keep my selector valve....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest Posts

Top Bottom