the one plus being, it doesn't get any cheaper to do in auto's than the 400...
CK5
Register an account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members.
Zeus
- Thread starter Zeus33rd
- Start date
Got the trans out today...man what a cluster f*ck that was.
No assistance, jacks or anything else. Just 'Jethro Power' to get the job done. Everything went ok till it was time to bench press the trans off the crossmember and away from the engine. I couldn't pull the lock/flat washers off one of the rubber trans mount studs, just figured I'd be able to push everything up through the mount and that would strip the washers off the stud. Boy was I wrong.
I was layin under there on my back wiggling the trans back off the motor, when it came free, I started pushing up to get the mount out of the crossmember, but the damn lock washer got so wedged on the threads of the stud that I didn't think it was ever gonna come off. I raised my legs up to support the trans, then tried to reach a screwdriver that was like 1/1000th's of an inch out of my reach. While doing this, front of the trans tipped down, the torque converter fell off and landed about 1/8" from my head. All this time I'm still tryin to support the trans and pry the damn lock washer off the stud. My arms are shaking and I'm about 5 seconds from muscle failure. The front of the trans finally fell down enough to force the washer off, was able to toss the crossmember out of the way and lower the trans down to my chest with the last ounce of strength I had. I musta laid there like that for a good 5 minutes in recovery mode. I never did reach the damn screwdriver.
Note to self- next time unbolt the mount from the adapter, instead of the mount from the crossmember.
Anyways, here's some pictures. My camera died, so these are from my phone.
Is there a way to tell if a pump is bad?
Jethro, it's not worth your safety to not get the proper tools to remove a trans, you could of been killed or something if that trans landed on your head. Not worth it. Be careful man.
As for the parts, from just the pictures, no problems are obvious. If you want to check the pump very quickyl for obvious signs, put the converter on the ground with the snout up, and set the pump on it upside down, then turn it, it should engage the pump and feel smooth.
Now if you want to check the pump correctly, unolt the 2 pump halves, and take it apart. You can use a feeler gauge and straight edge to check endplay with the gears in the pump case, should be no more than .002 if I remember correctly. To check gear wear, place the gears on a flat smooth surface. Always eassembly the gears vertically, (parallell to the teeth edges). So, if you place the gears together flat on the surface, you should be able to pull the inner gear and the outer gear will move with it. If the gears are wore too much, they will just pull apart. Which is also why you don't push them together like that, you can damage the gear teeth. TH400 pumps rarely go out unless they get debris in them. Of course you also need to take out every single valve and clean it and put it back together the way it came out.
Damn....I though I posted pics of the pump tear down here, I guess I forgot though. I know I posted them over on pirate. Lemme see if I can attach one from my phone...
I'll post the others later tonight. The post on Pirate is called "TH400 gurus".
I'll post the others later tonight. The post on Pirate is called "TH400 gurus".
Is that mud in the pump?
Lol, yes it is. Mud and sand.
texas4x4rebel
1/2 ton status
Thats no good time for a rebuild.
More-
I don't think the mud and sand is supposed to be in there. Other than the obvious, does everything look ok?
I also pulled the vb off and installed my transgo 1-2 programing kit. It already had some sort of shift kit in it already...the two feed holes in the separator plate had been drilled out to .110. Which was the size the transgo instructions recommended for "hotrod starts". I drilled the new feed holes to .093, which is what the instructions recommended for "heavy trucks and huge tires". Also, as it came from the truck, it had no springs on the "2nd accumulator valve", which is in the middle of the range for how firm the 1-2 shift could be. I added the orange inboard spring from the transgo kit for a slightly firmer shift. The red spring would make it as firm as possible. Installed the new 1-2 shift valve too, so it'll hold 1st and 2nd no matter what, as well as down shift to 1st when manually shifted, no matter the engine rpm's.
Other than the mud in the pump, everything else looked as clean as a whistle. Nothing that obvious in the valve body or anywhere else. Stuck my nose in the converter snout and took a whiff. Smelled like atf to me...no burnt smell.
If there's mud in the pump, does that mean there could be mud in the tq converter? How to tell if a tq converter is bad? What's the next step in diagnosing this thing?
One thing for sure, after poking around in it for a few hours today, I'm no longer intimidated by these things. I'd feel confident rebuilding it myself now.
It would really make my day if I could get away with just a new pump and possibly a new converter.
Other than the obvious, does everything look ok? I also pulled the vb off and installed my transgo 1-2 programing kit. It already had some sort of shift kit in it already...the two feed holes in the separator plate had been drilled out to .110. Which was the size the transgo instructions recommended for "hotrod starts". I drilled the new feed holes to .093, which is what the instructions recommended for "heavy trucks and huge tires". Also, as it came from the truck, it had no springs on the "2nd accumulator valve", which is in the middle of the range for how firm the 1-2 shift could be. I added the orange inboard spring from the transgo kit for a slightly firmer shift. The red spring would make it as firm as possible. Installed the new 1-2 shift valve too, so it'll hold 1st and 2nd no matter what, as well as down shift to 1st when manually shifted, no matter the engine rpm's.
Other than the mud in the pump, everything else looked as clean as a whistle. Nothing that obvious in the valve body or anywhere else. Stuck my nose in the converter snout and took a whiff. Smelled like atf to me...no burnt smell.
If there's mud in the pump, does that mean there could be mud in the tq converter? How to tell if a tq converter is bad? What's the next step in diagnosing this thing?
One thing for sure, after poking around in it for a few hours today, I'm no longer intimidated by these things. I'd feel confident rebuilding it myself now.
It would really make my day if I could get away with just a new pump and possibly a new converter.
DEMON44
Low-Tech Redneck
If that muddy water and dirt was actually IN the pump when you opened it up. the whole valve body needs to be taken apart and cleaned valve by valve. might be better off with a new valve body.
I've already had the vb off, thoroughly douched with brake clean and 3 of the valves removed and inspected. There was no mud, water, sand or anything else in the vb. It all looks brand new and clean as a whistle. The only place where I found any crud was in the pump. There wasn't even anything in the pan but a small bit of goo stuck to the magnet.
Although, I'm still going to buy a new pump and rebuild kit, hose it down again with brake clean and have at it.
Also just bought the ATSG manual for the TH400 from ebay.
Last edited:
Slapperbar
Retired Navy NDT Examiner
You probably need a new converter too. Time for a TCI 4x4 converter. http://www.summitracing.com/search/...Torque-Towing-Torque-Converters/?autoview=SKU
"These TCI High Torque Towing converters are efficient units that put more of your engine's torque to the ground. Slippage is minimized, providing better gas mileage and as much as a 20 degree F reduction in transmission temperature. Another benefit is reduced engine rpm at highway speed."
"These TCI High Torque Towing converters are efficient units that put more of your engine's torque to the ground. Slippage is minimized, providing better gas mileage and as much as a 20 degree F reduction in transmission temperature. Another benefit is reduced engine rpm at highway speed."
Made a small video about the governor gear. The idea of the governor sticking was brought up by one of the guys over on Pirate. I want to understand more about how this thing is supposed to work, hopefully one of you guys can verify if this thing is working correctly. 1080p HD if you select it.
Last edited by a moderator:
Oh so now I don't count?
I told you to check the governor if it moves freely or it sticks.
It's the valve inside that should move freely and when the governor spins the weights open up and push on the valve inside but when the governor slows down and retracts the valve should be able to pull back and not stick.
Obviously in your tranny the mud in the pump was the problem and I think it's because your seal was bad and when it sat in the water it seeped in but didn't get anywhere else because the tranny didn't run properly to push any of the mud thru.
Now I will watch the video.
Well you are supposed to move both sides together to move the valve. One side doesn't move it.
Last edited by a moderator:
Ran out of money for transmission parts, and I wanted to get somethin done, so I pulled the interior out and cleaned it all. The padding under the rubber mat on the drivers side was still soaked and starting to smell bad. 
This was the first time I've had the seats and stuff out, so it's the first time I've had a chance to look at the condition of the floor. And wasn't disappointed, ZERO rust...yay!
Pictures-
And this is the butt nasty padding from the drivers side. It's still hangin there on the fence to air out.
This was the first time I've had the seats and stuff out, so it's the first time I've had a chance to look at the condition of the floor. And wasn't disappointed, ZERO rust...yay!
Pictures-
And this is the butt nasty padding from the drivers side. It's still hangin there on the fence to air out.
Oh so now I don't count?
I told you to check the governor if it moves freely or it sticks.
It's the valve inside that should move freely and when the governor spins the weights open up and push on the valve inside but when the governor slows down and retracts the valve should be able to pull back and not stick.
Obviously in your tranny the mud in the pump was the problem and I think it's because your seal was bad and when it sat in the water it seeped in but didn't get anywhere else because the tranny didn't run properly to push any of the mud thru.
Now I will watch the video.
Well you are supposed to move both sides together to move the valve. One side doesn't move it.
Geez Issaam...no need to get the panties in a wad ya wanker.
I did pull it and check what you said, when you said it. It was only after the fact, from the thread on Pirate, that I learned about the valve in there and how it works in relation to the springs and weights. So calm down my friend! lol
As for working the valve with those weights...Impossible with the thing out of the trans. The only way for the valve and weights to engage each other, is to manually pull the valve down like I did in the video.
DEMON44
Low-Tech Redneck
on a side note, Im going to rip off your avatar for a while. but not on here........ 
Ima feelin a lil crazy
Ima feelin a lil crazy
Last edited:
Geez Issaam...no need to get the panties in a wad ya wanker.
I did pull it and check what you said, when you said it. It was only after the fact, from the thread on Pirate, that I learned about the valve in there and how it works in relation to the springs and weights. So calm down my friend! lol
As for working the valve with those weights...Impossible with the thing out of the trans. The only way for the valve and weights to engage each other, is to manually pull the valve down like I did in the video.
That is not so. If you hold the governor from the gear and let it hang and then depress BOTH weights at the same time it will move the valve. If you only depress one weight at a time the valve won't move. Trust me, I know this FOR A FACT as I just went outside and pulled a spare governor I have in the tool box and checked.
Well, then there is something wrong with mine.
As it sits, there is no physical way for the weights to engage the valve. Pushing on both weights makes no difference. The part of the weight mechanism that engages the valve sits below the end of the valve. They cannot possibly come in contact with each other. As shown in the vid, I had to reach in there with the knife blade and push down on the end of the valve to get it to contact the weight mechanism lever.
I'm gonna be pissed off if it turns out that this is the cause of my problems.....grrrr
As it sits, there is no physical way for the weights to engage the valve. Pushing on both weights makes no difference. The part of the weight mechanism that engages the valve sits below the end of the valve. They cannot possibly come in contact with each other. As shown in the vid, I had to reach in there with the knife blade and push down on the end of the valve to get it to contact the weight mechanism lever.
I'm gonna be pissed off if it turns out that this is the cause of my problems.....grrrr
Ok...damn you Scott-
One of these days I'm going to learn to trust the man when he tells me something is either wrong or right with my truck...He's been schooling my ass like this for years.
One of these days I'm going to learn to trust the man when he tells me something is either wrong or right with my truck...He's been schooling my ass like this for years.
Last edited by a moderator:
Glad to be of assistance Joe.
Like I told you, i'm rarely wrong when I give out info, that comes from 33 years of working on vehicles and engines.
Like I told you, i'm rarely wrong when I give out info, that comes from 33 years of working on vehicles and engines.
