'72 K5 - Greg's @MightAsWellK5 Build

[jekquistk5]

2013.09.10- UPDATE! - MORE PHB ISSUES...

Win some, lose some.

I have been systematically going through all of my cobbled-together link mounts and replacing them with "real" beefy usable mounts that will be part of the final front 3-link solution...

Some were wins: The frame-side PHB mount, and the lower DS link mount have been transformed into their final iterations (hopefully) with very little drama... however, as I started to move to the PS to rework the axle-side PHB mount and build it into a single large mount that integrated the lower link mount, things started to get dicey.

The following images will illustrate the struggles, and what I hope will be a solid solution....

Opening shot: Here is the lower plate being re-cut to integrate the lower link mount.

Here's a shot of the new plate as it was put into position on the passenger side.... yes, I managed to get a speed hole on this side as well!

This mount seemed like it was going to be slam-dunk. Unfortunately, what I didn't notice was that the PHB mount (when finally placed into double-shear mount) does not have the clearance it needs to allow the PS to droop down more than a few inches (while simultaneously turning hard right on the draglink) before a collision occurs.... take a look. You can see how the draglink is poised to collide with the mounting brackets unless something is changed:

The long plate that supported the PHB (and the two relatively long mounting tabs) were cut-down in an effort to gain clearance during droop...

Unfortunately, this only gains a few additional inches of droop but does not allow the draglink to move under that PHB mount the way I need it to. It was becoming clear that the axle-side PHB mount simply cannot be supported from underneath..... instead, I needed to think more creatively about a way to effectively "hang" that heim from a mount from above.

So... it was time to cut a substantial amount of the plate away to create the necessary clearance. From this point I would need to envision a new way to build an overhead double-shear mount:

To drive these loads back into the pumpkin area and support the PHB adequately, I built a single large vertical tab, and then triangulated a second plate to join with it..... as seen here:

Now, imagine an upper plate that locks those two triangulated plates together. This paper template represents that idea...

This plate will create an edge where the other heim mounting tab can be hung-down on the opposite side. Still unresolved is my desire to add some additional triangulation from the underside of the bracket to the pumpkin in a way that doesn't create the original interference issues during PS droop...

Here's a shot of the axle at it's "full stuff" position (that's 27.5" from the floor to lower link mount bolt)....while also cranked hard-right against the steering stops. I finally made it to a full 6" of bump travel, with maybe 1/8" to spare!!!

Next Up: How about a steering linkage and steering box?

-G

Good Golly Miss Molly!

 

[miniwally]

Brandon,

As always, thanks for your input. I'll definitely look into that. Any chance I can run my existing dual-piston Ford calipers with your Wilwood pedal (and MC)? It would be a lot simpler if I didn't have to re-engineer the caliper and eXaXt mounts that I already have....

-G

Anything can be made work. I actually ran stock Ford D60 front calipers with the standard disk brake swap rear calipers with my 6.25/1 willwood pedal using 3/4" masters. It was ok but not great. I didn't spend much time tuning brakes as I just didn't care too. master cylinders are like $80.00 so changing the size isn't a huge deal. I would look at 3/4" front and 7/8" rears to start.

When we went to the brakeman calipers and pads we had to change masters to I think 7/8" can't remember and the damn thing will flat out stop now.

At Vegas to Reno last year I pulled of a 105 MPH run down a gravel road entering into a 90 degree right turn. Went from 105 down to whatever speed we went around the corner at in less than 1/10th of a mile on dirt with control. It was fun

 

[Greg72]

I guess that the thought of going "backward" to manual brakes never crossed my mind...

My old Porsche 911 had non-assisted brakes, and my even older VW Bug did too.... and the Porsche (at least) had awesome brake power and feel. Ultimately, it seems to come down to a careful design so that the pedal pressure is reasonable, and the available braking pressure allows for good "feel" and the ability to hold the truck from moving even when it's in compound-low (5.4:1) in the transfercase....

I like that the Wilwood has a balance bar, and if MCs are only $80, I should be able to buy a reverse pedal assy and a small collection of MCs for less than $500 total if I use my existing Ford Superduty calipers and rotors. Nice.


-G

 

[Greg72]

2013.09.11 - UPDATE! - SUPER-HERO EVENING PROGRESS!!!

Anyone feel like seeing some crazy-fun pics of a completed idler steering linkage?

OK then, here you go........ queue up some DIO "Holy Diver", tonight feels like really inspirational progress!


Here's a new location for the Saginaw box. A few inches further forward than the last time I tried to mock it up in place.

This seems to be a good spot. It keeps the box low enough not to interfere with the underside of the radiator, and far enough forward to allow the pitman arm to swing and not collide with the draglink or other linkages underneath

The magic of an idler steering (swingset-type steering) is that it takes the motion of the steering box and transfers it through a small draglink "stub" over to the idler pivot..... from there, the ratio changes from a short throw (5.5" pitman arm) to the longer (8.75") throw that is needed at the steering knuckle arms.... obviously, the draglink translates that motion over to the passenger side knuckle (with a classic "crossover steering" look).

The result (with the wheels pointed straight ahead) ends up looking like this: (NOTE: In these images, the suspension is also in the "full bump" configuration, which is the most difficult position to fit linkages into the available space)

Obviously, the most challenging thing is insuring that there is still adequate clearance when the steering is at full-lock (either hard left or hard right)... here's a shot of the front suspension, at full-bump and also at a full, hard-lock left turn!

For those of you still trying to wrap your heads around all the crazy heims and linkages in these photos, here is an overhead view of the steering box area... this might make it a bit easier to trace the motion of the steering box (pitman arm) as it moves into each successive piece of linkage...

The items left at this point are still to completely cycle the suspension on each side, and full steer left-to-right and right-to-left at all the various combinations of bump and droop. There is also the need to look at the PHB angle as compared to this new draglink angle (at ride height) to see how close to parallel they actually ended up..... some additional fine tuning of the idler pivot might be needed to get those angles perfect.

I'll leave that effort for another day.


-G

 

[tRustyK5]

Dang Greg...

Amazing work as usual.

 

[Z71paramedic]

That's pretty insane... What type of bushing/pad will you use between those idler mounts where it swings up? I imagine some sort of teflon or something???

Incredible work though dude!!! Glad you're really making some strides on this thing

 

[Greg72]

Dang Greg...

Amazing work as usual.

Thanks Brother! I couldn't have gotten this far without a lot of help from you and the other guys here.... it's a great feeling to see so many people cheering me on, and giving me time-saving advice each time I need it!

That's pretty insane... What type of bushing/pad will you use between those idler mounts where it swings up? I imagine some sort of teflon or something???

Incredible work though dude!!! Glad you're really making some strides on this thing

Sean,

The upper pivot could probably work with some kind of bronze bushing, but I've already been talking with Kert about a modified version of his swing-out tire carrier kit instead. Basically a thick slug of DOM with seats cut on both sides to hold the races for tapered roller bearings. That would be a high-strength, and smooth operating pivot.... I need to circle back around with him and give him some more detailed specs so he can get something chucked-up on his lathe.... for now, it's just a 3/4" bolt and a scrap of thick-walled DOM that I had laying around.


-G

 

[Z71paramedic]

Sean,

The upper pivot could probably work with some kind of bronze bushing, but I've already been talking with Kert about a modified version of his swing-out tire carrier kit instead. Basically a thick slug of DOM with seats cut on both sides to hold the races for tapered roller bearings. That would be a high-strength, and smooth operating pivot.... I need to circle back around with him and give him some more detailed specs so he can get something chucked-up on his lathe.... for now, it's just a 3/4" bolt and a scrap of thick-walled DOM that I had laying around.


-G

I kinda figured that was far from a final solution, but I was just curious. Sounds like your idea with Kert would be a long lasting, low maintenance piece in your fancy suspension!

 

[NorCal69]

I've been waiting for more of these pics.... Absolutely insane work Greg...


How bright is that light at the end of the tunnel, anyways??

 

[Greg72]

I've been waiting for more of these pics.... Absolutely insane work Greg...

How bright is that light at the end of the tunnel, anyways??

I don't know about the tunnel..... but there is a light at the garage door opening, and I intend to move the truck toward that light (on it's own 4 wheels) in the next couple of weeks.

New photos of the truck outside in the sunshine are a HUGE motivator for me. I got it outside last year (albeit on only 2 tires) and that felt great.... it's time to up the ante a bit.

BlazerBash 2018 is almost here!


-G

 

[y5mgisi]

Something extra cool about steering setups with idlersinvolved like that.

 

[ktmoutfront]

The idler on the steering is always a conversation starter. I get asked why, frequently.

Nice work. First time you turn the wheels from behind the dash, is a cool feeling.

 

[bp71k5]

Greg, I think you might not get to wheel it at blazer bash until 2019 even if you show up in 2018. There will be piles of people climbing all over and under that thing trying to get a look at all the cool parts.

 

[BAJA_BLAZER]

CNC sells an aluminum mount for using two of their master cylinders behind a GM Hydroboost. It has a balance bar and can have a remote cable bias adjuster attached to it.

I have one in my Blazer and will try to get a picture; it is mounted parallel to the firewall.

You can use a bell crank to actuate the Hydroboost or if you really want it remote mounted you can use a single MC off the brake pedal and a slave cylinder to actuate the Hydroboost which could be just about anywhere that you can get brake lines and hydraulic lines to.

I guess that the thought of going "backward" to manual brakes never crossed my mind...

My old Porsche 911 had non-assisted brakes, and my even older VW Bug did too.... and the Porsche (at least) had awesome brake power and feel. Ultimately, it seems to come down to a careful design so that the pedal pressure is reasonable, and the available braking pressure allows for good "feel" and the ability to hold the truck from moving even when it's in compound-low (5.4:1) in the transfercase....

I like that the Wilwood has a balance bar, and if MCs are only $80, I should be able to buy a reverse pedal assy and a small collection of MCs for less than $500 total if I use my existing Ford Superduty calipers and rotors. Nice.


-G

 

[Greg72]

CNC sells an aluminum mount for using two of their master cylinders behind a GM Hydroboost. It has a balance bar and can have a remote cable bias adjuster attached to it.

I have one in my Blazer and will try to get a picture; it is mounted parallel to the firewall.

You can use a bell crank to actuate the Hydroboost or if you really want it remote mounted you can use a single MC off the brake pedal and a slave cylinder to actuate the Hydroboost which could be just about anywhere that you can get brake lines and hydraulic lines to.

Ramsey,

I'd definitely appreciate seeing a photo of that setup if you get a chance... thanks.


Not much new to report on the build. Unfortunately, I've been sick with the flu the last couple of days, so my shop time has been replaced with massive amounts of "sleep time" trying to knock this thing down.

For now, I'll just post up a few miscellaneous items that were overlooked in my recent updates....

I have been reverse-engineering the 90* brake pedal mount to see if it's something I can build easily. If I keep the motion ratio at 1:1 and get the angles right, it shouldn't be all that bad to fabricate something that will work.

Shame.....shame....shame on McMaster-Carr!! I ordered up a complete set of spherical washers and graded metric bolts and washers for the installation of my portal box angled shims (to go from positive camber to slightly negative). The spherical washers were good-quality German made bits, but this is what they sent me for the bolts....

Crappy Chinese-made "graded" bolts......yeah, sure.... nothing to worry about, these are good quality... Also, they aren't even fully-threaded so I couldn't even use them as "mock up" bolts to see if the lengths are going to be correct. My plan was to use ARP fasteners and nuts for the final assembly, but I didn't want to spend all that money until I knew all of my final bolt lengths, etc. Guess I'll have to try another source for bolts from now on.

Finally, something that has never happened before. My dad came over on my birthday and snapped a photo of me in the shop working on the truck. In all the time I've been doing this build I've never actually had a photo of me with the truck..... so, there you go.

I'm already sick of being sick.... hopefully by this weekend I will be back to normal and can get some "real" updates for you folks.


-G

 

[Smokinthehippies]

Finally, something that has never happened before. My dad came over on my birthday and snapped a photo of me in the shop working on the truck. In all the time I've been doing this build I've never actually had a photo of me with the truck..... so, there you go.

I'm already sick of being sick.... hopefully by this weekend I will be back to normal and can get some "real" updates for you folks.


-G

whats ironic about that is your picture link is broken, so we still don't have a picture of you working lol

 

[imiceman44]

whats ironic about that is your picture link is broken, so we still don't have a picture of you working lol

Exactly

 

[Greg72]

Weird. The photos look fine on my computer... no broken links, etc.

Photobucket sucks.


I'll go see what's up and try to fix it.

-G

 

[Smokinthehippies]

Weird. The photos look fine on my computer... no broken links, etc.

Photobucket sucks.


I'll go see what's up and try to fix it.

-G

the baldness is visible. pic link currently working.
although technically it looks like you're just trying to keep the tube from floating away

 

[NorCal69]

Future lumber rack..... Nice.