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'72 K5 - Greg's @MightAsWellK5 Build
- Thread starter Greg72
- Start date
This is the build description. I will improve this later. (GB)
If it doesn't create a "weird" looking fender in the process, I agree with you 100%
When it comes to the front suspension and fenders these last few days, it's definitely becoming a battle of inches. Small changes can really make the difference.
-G
When it comes to the front suspension and fenders these last few days, it's definitely becoming a battle of inches. Small changes can really make the difference.
-G
I think if you make the suspension clear the fender, you will have to modify the opening more anyway. So I say make the suspension how you want it, whether it be factory wheelbase, or +1 or 2". Then when you get the suspension complete, then modify your fender to fit with the tires on and make them clear. I would set the fenders aside for now, once you pick your wheelbase.
This, fender/ body is last.
I agree with Heath though since it turns its going to need to be bigger everywhere. I have been down this road before and its absolutely astounding how much space a turning tire takes up
So you guys are suggesting that THIS is a problem...?
This was at full bump on both sides.
Remember.... The axle is technically 2" too far forward based on this fender opening centerline, so it should not be surprising that things got bizarre at the leading edge of the fender.
The surprise was that the rear of the fender was really tight as the wheel turned in and out. Maybe 1/4" of clearance between the tire and fender at its worst-case scenario. So if I had moved the current stock-sized opening forward, I would just be shifting the interferences around, but not solving them. Looks like I'm going to be moving towards "pizza slice fender v.2"
My original pizza fender was a total of 4" wider at the base of the arch, but my guess is that I can probably get this one done with an extra 2" at the base of this one. (adds 1" around the entire current fender arch).
-G
Awesome Photo.. 
Hope you don't mind greg, but I was bored.
Here is the opening moved forward like you showed in your illustration.
I went a step further and did that same frontal movement, but kept the rear of the fender in the same spot, effectively opening the wheelwell 2 inches.
This gains the front room , keeps the rear in, and gives the tire some more space. I think this keeps the fenders overall shape as well.
Here is the opening moved forward like you showed in your illustration.
I went a step further and did that same frontal movement, but kept the rear of the fender in the same spot, effectively opening the wheelwell 2 inches.
This gains the front room , keeps the rear in, and gives the tire some more space. I think this keeps the fenders overall shape as well.
this solves you clearance issues. Until you get into a tight area.
http://www.glassworksunlimited.com/73to87chfrfe.html
http://www.glassworksunlimited.com/73to87chfrfe.html
Cool....
I have to admit that the thought of doing a major fender "rework" has me a little bummed....
I never really liked the look of my original pizza-sliced fender, mostly because of how much taller the arch became. Ultimately if you want to preserve the proportions of the original fender well you HAVE to make it taller too.... But 2" added everywhere just didn't look right to me...
I know Eric and Heath are coaching me that "form follows function" on this one.... And to let the fender be what it is once the suspension is fully built. But I just can't ignore the aesthetics completely. I need to strike a balance between the two factors here (suspension travel vs. aesthetics) and that's what is going to eat up a lot of my brain cells in the coming days.
-G
I have to admit that the thought of doing a major fender "rework" has me a little bummed....
I never really liked the look of my original pizza-sliced fender, mostly because of how much taller the arch became. Ultimately if you want to preserve the proportions of the original fender well you HAVE to make it taller too.... But 2" added everywhere just didn't look right to me...
I know Eric and Heath are coaching me that "form follows function" on this one.... And to let the fender be what it is once the suspension is fully built. But I just can't ignore the aesthetics completely. I need to strike a balance between the two factors here (suspension travel vs. aesthetics) and that's what is going to eat up a lot of my brain cells in the coming days.
-G
bp71k5
3/4 ton status
Greg,
Rather than trying to reproduce the larger wheel opening in the exact same proportions, another option is "simply" building new fender opening molds from wood and hammering out the fender the old fashioned way? I bet you can get one fender laser scanned, modified in CAD for a larger wheel (you could get 2D renderings to preview the result this way too), then CNC machined out of wood.
I've also seen people construct a whole new wheel openings with a combination of careful sheet forming and patching.
When you get up off the floor from laughing, I could help you out with the CAD modification part if you found a scanning vendor locally. Having a computer cut wooden form might be useful even if you didn't hammer it all out of a single sheet.
Rather than trying to reproduce the larger wheel opening in the exact same proportions, another option is "simply" building new fender opening molds from wood and hammering out the fender the old fashioned way? I bet you can get one fender laser scanned, modified in CAD for a larger wheel (you could get 2D renderings to preview the result this way too), then CNC machined out of wood.
I've also seen people construct a whole new wheel openings with a combination of careful sheet forming and patching.
When you get up off the floor from laughing, I could help you out with the CAD modification part if you found a scanning vendor locally. Having a computer cut wooden form might be useful even if you didn't hammer it all out of a single sheet.
Greg,
Rather than trying to reproduce the larger wheel opening in the exact same proportions, another option is "simply" building new fender opening molds from wood and hammering out the fender the old fashioned way? I bet you can get one fender laser scanned, modified in CAD for a larger wheel (you could get 2D renderings to preview the result this way too), then CNC machined out of wood.
I've also seen people construct a whole new wheel openings with a combination of careful sheet forming and patching.
When you get up off the floor from laughing, I could help you out with the CAD modification part if you found a scanning vendor locally. Having a computer cut wooden form might be useful even if you didn't hammer it all out of a single sheet.
Be careful what you volunteer for.....
I am thinking of a simple wire-frame fender arch as a starting point to confirm all my clearances (I bought a bunch of 1/4", 3/16, and 1/8" steel rod a while ago) then render the final fender to match my wireframe template.
I like the "old school" wooden buck idea too though...!
-G
because of how wide of an arc your wheels turn it looks like it's going to end up like this. that is a whole lot of fender cut away.
any chance it would work out to widen the fender a bit instead? basically give the tire room to tuck in behind it as it turns towards full lock? I have no idea how that would look, just tossing out an idea.
Well I for one love the aesthetics of a wheel opening that looks factory but is much larger than the factory one.
The last thing you wanna do is put a ton of time into the fender and start "showing off" a bit when the truck is done and rip the fender off
Make it big enough to fit, make it look stock and be done with it.
Wow that makes it sound really easy doesn't it
My future plans on my crew cab build include stretching the fender out quite a bit to allow room for a much larger tire, eventually 40s but with only about 2" of lift, I realize a square body is much easier to stretch the fender on but I am going to retain the ratio of everything it will just be larger
The last thing you wanna do is put a ton of time into the fender and start "showing off" a bit when the truck is done and rip the fender off
Make it big enough to fit, make it look stock and be done with it.
Wow that makes it sound really easy doesn't it
My future plans on my crew cab build include stretching the fender out quite a bit to allow room for a much larger tire, eventually 40s but with only about 2" of lift, I realize a square body is much easier to stretch the fender on but I am going to retain the ratio of everything it will just be larger
I like where you are going now. I like the idea of a stock looking fender too, I just think you need to wait until the suspension is done before you modify it to look stock. Knowing what you know now, you can pick your wheelbase and finish the suspension/steering. Then you can stuff it, steer it, and articulate it to make sure it clears.
Yeah..... I think I'm just about as far along with the fender as I can go at this point. This weekend, I'm going to pull the axle back 1" further (105" wheelbase total), then pull the wheels/tires off and start cycling the suspension fully. Bringing the axle back has potentially created new interferences with the upper link mount and engine block... it used to sit just ahead of the block but slightly behind the crank pulley. It was a nice spot to sneak it into. Obviously I can rework the mount and push it back to where it was, but that puts that upper mount WAY out ahead of the axle centerline. I have a feeling that creates some oddball issues with pinion angle change?
In any case, I know that with a 105" wheelbase I can get the fender to work properly and look pretty good when the time comes.... for now, I just really need to start "locking down" some dimensions for the front suspension and steering components or this thing will never be able to roll out of the garage when the snow finally melts!!!
-G
One more fun photo to share....
Here's a top-view of the portal and knuckle assembly. You can really see the crazy offset between the WMS and the upper kingpin!
Now you can say you've seen it.
-G
Here's a top-view of the portal and knuckle assembly. You can really see the crazy offset between the WMS and the upper kingpin!
Now you can say you've seen it.
-G
Greg, do you have the rotors on the hubs along with the wheels in your photos? If not I suggest you install them before you start trying to figure clearances since the rotors will push the wheels out even further yet by the hat thickness.
Scotty,
Yeah that last photo was a bit out of sequence... The fronts are complete (rotors and 3/8" spacers). I don't think you could get the wheels on tightly without that stuff anyway because the wheel studs aren't fully threaded to the hub area. They are dually studs IIRC.
-G
Yeah that last photo was a bit out of sequence... The fronts are complete (rotors and 3/8" spacers). I don't think you could get the wheels on tightly without that stuff anyway because the wheel studs aren't fully threaded to the hub area. They are dually studs IIRC.
-G
