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Did I miss the Y length in there? Both top & bottom plates need to be 7.25 long after assembly, and I get the difference in size of the top & bottom plates with the floor material thickness considered. How wide in the other direction? Are these of odd shape? round?
 
Did I miss the Y length in there? Both top & bottom plates need to be 7.25 long after assembly, and I get the difference in size of the top & bottom plates with the floor material thickness considered. How wide in the other direction?

I'm thinking maybe 4.50" x 7.25" would work....

I figure with 1.75" tubing sitting in the middle of that, there would still be a generous amount of space to drill through-holes, radius corners and comfortably get a wrench in there to tighten things down. :waytogo:

How funny is it to have someone talk to you in such nebulous terms about dimensions? :haha: "Yeah, I figure Y-axis tolerance of +/- 0.2500 is probably good enough"....... LOL


-G
 
Greg, I think you're dead on with the wheel well / tub idea. If you don't mind, I'll try and actually contribute to the discussion instead of derailing it.

I did this for my crewcab when I tubbed it for the "stealth dually" motif, wherein the rear wheels went under the bed, keeping the WMS the same as SRW axle.

Some pix on the premise they're a kiloword each:

dually-assembled-09.jpg


i-suck-at-welding-sheetmetal-04.jpg


wheel-wells-painted-2.JPG


First pic you can see the flanged area cut out in preparation to move it inboard.

Second pic is a testfit of the original wheel well with the sheetmetal welded in. Without the weld marks, you'd think it belongs as the pleats line up. The wheel well bolts in and just needs to be widened to cover the gap.

Third is the end result with the composite wheel well bedlinered so you can't see my crappy sheetmetal welding.

Anyway, point being it's invisible as long as you measure carefully and do it in even multiples of the, as Rob calls them, "pleats." I moved mine in two pleats, it looks like, though I think you're talking about more.

You then get a second set of wheel wells, slice and splice, and bolt them up. Et voila, it looks absolutely factory, and people give you that look where they know something isn't quite right, but can't point out what it is, which is true for so much for your truck.

-- A
 
RyanB gave me his wheel tubs out of his truck when he converted it to a dune machine..... I brought them on the plane with me as a "carryon" many years ago. :)


-G
 
So here's my "No Update" Update for the weekend.......

Things started out just fine on Friday. UPS dropped off 4 more 17" hoops for the white wheel & hubcap project.

IMG_0793.jpg





-G

I couldn't tell with my cell phone, but on my laptop I could see those loop came from Stockton Wheel.

Sorry to take this off the wheel-well subject, but is Stockton Wheel still in business? Last I've heard is they are out of business because the owner died (I think).
 
Yep. Stockton Wheel.

I was dubious about placing an order with them because of all the internet horror stories, but they were the only ones with the parts I needed.

I bought ONE wheel hoop as a test about a year ago.... I figure I'd only risk $150 or so if they didn't deliver or the part was wrong. I was pleasantly surprised when it showed up on time and in great shape. :waytogo:

-G
 
I have a question when you wheel this thing the plan is to pull the bed sides along with other body panels off to prevent damage right?
 
Yep. Stockton Wheel.

I was dubious about placing an order with them because of all the internet horror stories, but they were the only ones with the parts I needed.

I bought ONE wheel hoop as a test about a year ago.... I figure I'd only risk $150 or so if they didn't deliver or the part was wrong. I was pleasantly surprised when it showed up on time and in great shape. :waytogo:

-G



I hope you have better luck with them then I did. They screwed me out of $500 worth of wheels. I was forced to use the wheels I got delivered due to a deadline AND them not shipping them to me on time. I had to run the wrong wheels they sent to me or I was out a ride. Once used no return. They would not ship out another set without a return first.
 
I have a question when you wheel this thing the plan is to pull the bed sides along with other body panels off to prevent damage right?

Right! Not sure exactly how it's all going to work yet. Pulling just the outer skin seems like it will work, although it's a bit fussy around the rear taillight area. I will not use any obvious fasteners (like dzus) to attach the skins... It would be easy, but would look terrible on this truck. Ultimately, I want to hide a rub rail between the inner and outer bed skins, so that I've got some real structure in there, and when I'm running without the panels, I will have something to protect the delicate inner structures from trees, etc.

I hope you have better luck with them then I did. They screwed me out of $500 worth of wheels. I was forced to use the wheels I got delivered due to a deadline AND them not shipping them to me on time. I had to run the wrong wheels they sent to me or I was out a ride. Once used no return. They would not ship out another set without a return first.

I've read plenty of sad stories about them so I was very concerned about placing the first order.... My experience was good, and I opened up those new boxes already just to confirm that everything was correct (and it was). So I can't really say anything bad about them.

YMMV


-G
 
Was thinking maybe you could integrate the rub rail and use it for mounting too. Any exposed edge of bodywork is liable to be smashed so making those very outside areas able to take a beating without bending or any tweaking is gonna take some doing. Some sort of rub rail will be necessary
 
2014.09.17 - UPDATE! - "I TRY TO THINK BUT NOTHING HAPPENS!...."


That classic "Three Stooges" line sums things up pretty well from last night's efforts... :D I didn't end up operating a single power tool all night, just a lot of measuring, thinking, looking and laying on the ground under the truck looking up at things. :haha:

It's really not that bad. I ordered up some square and rectangular tubing (3/16" wall) so that I can start the process of building outriggers from the factory frame. These will be the basis for my integrated rocksliders.

While I am waiting for metal to arrive, I played around with green tape and tried to visualize some of the ways I can support the rear struts from above, and get it all tied-in to the frame and other beefy stuff below.

IMG_0853.jpg


I'm still going back and forth about the best solution for cage plates. Sometimes I think I want to do a custom-CNC milled plate that follows the profile of the convoluted floor, but then I think about the fact that I will eventually Line-X the entire tub.... so the precise dimensions of the plates will actually NOT fit once the extra sound deadening materials are sprayed in everywhere.

The other option is to weld-in a series of small beveled strips to create the flat landing pads that I need. If I'm careful, I can dress-down the welds and blend them into the floor nicely. Then the Line-X can be sprayed right over the factory floor and integrated cage mounts. Then the cage itself can be dropped down into position (with it's own mounting plate obviously) and I can run the mounting bolts through both parts to secure it.

At this point, I'm leaning toward the second option. In terms of assembly, it just seems like the more logical way to prepare the bed for the rollcage installation, and it will not be affected by the bedliner when that is eventually sprayed in at the end of the project.

I was also sweating the other little details last night for things like carpeting... Obviously if you want the carpets to be removeable, they have to install AROUND the rollcage. You cant' just plop the cage down on top of it and run the bolts through...... if my interior ever got wet, leaving a bunch of wet, soggy carpet permanently installed would be no bueno.

Ultimately, I still want to use as many of the factory trim pieces as I can to preserve the "feel" of the original truck. Here's a shot of the rear carpet hold down strip.

IMG_0856.jpg


If I dropped a simple square cageplate into the corner, I'd have about a 1" gap between the plate and the carpet trim strip that would be hard to fit carpet into.... So I think it makes more sense to just extend the cage plate so that it touches the carpet trim plate in that area instead. Then I can run the carpet straight back without a bunch of crazy cuts and turns near the tailgate area. (The red template would replace the existing cage plate, and would wrap around the C-pillar frame and tuck tightly into that rear corner)

One of the other areas where I'm using up a bunch of brain cells lately is the B-pillar area and it's relationship to the rock sliders (and the reinforcement of them). At this point, the plan seems to be to add a new 2" x 3" x .188" wall cross-sill directly underneath the roll cage B-pillar area. Basically it's a 6 foot long rectangular tube that will be attached to the framerails (running over the top.... there's just barely enough room!) and then extending out to just below the roll cage plates on each side. This allows me to give much needed structure to the outer b-pillar cage tubes. And since the "V" bars are in the same alignment, they also get to tie-in to that new cross sill too. In a strange twist of fate, if you were to drop a plumb line directly below the b-pillar tubes you would land right on top of a great rockslider support spot! So instead of trying to bolt the rocksliders to the framerail for support (and creating a huge 24"torque arm against the frame) it is possible to actually tie-in vertically to the b-pillar area and the new cross sill. :waytogo: It's a little hard to explain, but as this moves along, I'll post up more photos and it will all make more sense...... the same effect happens in the A-pillar area as well. I can drive the loads from the rockslider up into the rollcage and support it from above AND by tying it back into the framerail.

With the addition of that new cross sill, it also opened up the opportunity to rework the diagonal braces behind the front seats in the B-pillar area.

IMG_0858.jpg


Although its hard to argue with the original "V" shape from a strength perspective, it makes rear seat access even MORE of a pain than it normally is. Having even just a few inches of space between those tubes on the floor will make a world of difference in terms of legroom and ease of ingress/egress. I played around with a few different options (straight bars, bent bars, crossbars) and it seems like the one of the right side is my favorite so far.

It's puts the lower bars about 20" apart, so when you flip the passenger seat forward and take that first step into the back area... the whole thing is a LOT easier.....

IMG_0862.jpg



More thinking.....more planning. :thinking:


-G
 
How about taking a page from mike and bend tube from the B-C pillars that contour around your new wheel tubs on the floor. Then bracing up from there. Another ck5 tube farm member :) MOOOOO
 
How about taking a page from mike and bend tube from the B-C pillars that contour around your new wheel tubs on the floor. Then bracing up from there. Another ck5 tube farm member :) MOOOOO

Definitely not going to make any decisions on those rear support bars until I know more about how big the new wheel tubs are going to be.... :dunno:


-G
 
Greg,

One issue to consider with the cage plates: In my case, I did the plate welded onto the floor and then sprayed the liner over that. Then bolted the cage plate into the welded plate. Over time, the pressure of the plates and the truck twisting and moving caused the liner to delaminate a bit. I used Al's liner, not Linex, but it's something to consider. The liners tend to be good at light abrasion, but not so much with huge clamping forces. Linex is much harder than Al's though so maybe it'll stand up better.

If I did it again, I might weld in a plate and run the liner up to the edge, but leave the plate painted. That way moisture can't hide under any liner that might delaminate.
 
I would NEVER do anything other than normal paint on the roll cage plates, like Brian said it's going to eventually make the linex or whatever other brand/type of rubberized material fail and the cage bolts will become loose.
 
I would NEVER do anything other than normal paint on the roll cage plates, like Brian said it's going to eventually make the linex or whatever other brand/type of rubberized material fail and the cage bolts will become loose.


Well if that's true then I can count all of my remaining options on one finger! :haha:


OK, so it sounds like the plan of record will be to cut some narrow strips of 1/4 thick plate, put a strong bevel on both sides and weld them directly to the floorpan (top side and underside). Grind welds flush, then use some seam sealer in the valley areas to insure that no water ever penetrates under those strips... Zinc chromate on the top plate followed by some kind of strong topcoat.

Then when it's time for Line-X, I'll have to mask off all the plates so that they don't get sprayed.


-G
 
my plates are primed, seam sealed and painted.. Al's will run up to em..
 
OK so...... you are making this bolt in for what reason?

There are many reasons actually....

1. It's easier to weld all of the cage points completely with a removable cage
2. It allows me to metal finish and paint individual parts of the project as I complete them
3. I can revise / improve designs in smaller, more workable sections in the future.
4. It's not a trophy truck


I guess if I was working with flawless sheetmetal and had more room for a lift, I might try welding the entire project together (cage/body/frame). But I just don't think I can get a satisfactory level of quality doing it that way given my limited space and capabilities.

-G
 

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