BECAUSE RACECAR!!!!!!
-g
This is in all reality probably the actual proper place and context to use this well because racecar.
CK5
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'72 K5 - Greg's @MightAsWellK5 Build
- Thread starter Greg72
- Start date
This is the build description. I will improve this later. (GB)
This is in all reality probably the actual proper place and context to use this well because racecar.
BECAUSE RACECAR!!!!!!
-g
One of the reasons I watch this build is because of the absolute impracticality of the level of awesome fab work! Makes no sense to do this level of work to a trail/street truck.... That's why I love what you are doing! O.C.D. fab at it's finest!
Hee hee.... Thanks.
I'm having a good time with it lately. I've got some really cool ideas in my head for the rockslider, and I can't wait to get some of the structural work finished so I can try them out....
-G
Greg72 said:Hee hee.... Thanks.
That reminds me of a conversation I had with my GF recently. We were discussing the way I look at things and she says, "You take everything as a compliment, everything!" My response... "Why thank you!"
2014.10.05 - UPDATE! - CROSS SILLS & ROCK SLIDERS.... !!!
As it was happening yesterday, it didn't seem like there was going to be much to talk about for this update. But after looking at all the photos and uploading them, it's clear that there actually IS quite a bit to tell you....
When we last left this discussion, I was working to get a solid cross-sill assembly figured out for the B-pillar area.... so on Sunday morning, that's where I picked up my work again.
The cross sill is based on a 3" x 2" x .188" (3/16") wall tube. It fits in the space above the factory framerails really well... even without a body lift. However, the problem I ran into was that by the time I got the entire plate/mounting system into position the way I wanted it, there just wasn't enough room for it to sit flat on top of the framerail (unmodified).
Fortunately, the solution was simple and will ultimately end up being stronger... I cut a 1-1/4" notch to clear the (mini-monolith) brackets that hold my rear upper link mounts and dropped the entire assembly down a bit....
Here's the best shot I can provide of the full tube showing it's position relative to the factory cross sills in that area.
The plates themselves are a bit tricky. The key is that since I will be hard-mounting not only the 10 factory body mounts, but also ALL of these extra cage points... I need the same ability to shim and gap the bodylines at each position, in the same way the factory expected the body mounts themselves to be shimmed. This meant that I had build-in some adjustment space in my bracketry..... and ~3/8" seemed like a generous amount to do that (depicted as a stack of flat washers in the pic below)
Once I had that space reserved, between the underside cage plate and the cross sill landing plate, there was about a 5/8" gap that needed to be filled in with a small section of tube. Since my old 2" x .500" wall DOM link arms weren't going to be doing anything except sitting in the corner, I cut off a short piece and wedged it in there. No worries about strength on THAT part!!
I repeated this same process on the driver's side, though it was a much bigger hassle with the bedside still in place.
Next up was the part I'd been most excited about.... it was time to start the rockslider project!
Some quick background:
The rockslider is intended to get it's support from the framerail itself (like 99% of rocksliders do) but I also wanted to add support in a vertical axis by tying in slider into the A-pillar and B-Pillar mounts using down-bars. This will help tremendously to resist the torsional bending of the framerails when the rockslider is balanced on a rock, and the rockslider tube actually helps to tie the cage together longitudinally, so everything gets stronger in the process.
As it worked out, my flat bellypan framerails can be extended all the way out to the outside edge of the rocker panel, and are in an almost perfect alignment. In this shot you can see that I've clamped some long straight scraps of rectangular tubing to act as a temporary support for the rockslider, and to establish that "level" from the framerails themselves.
The inner rocker is a thin vertical piece of metal directly under the door area. I used a scrap of 3/4" thick lumber to act as a spacer so that I'd have a bit of clearance between the rockslider structure and the body. Remember that the body still needs to be removeable / installable, so I don't want to make all my clearances super-tight, or it will be a nightmare to drop the body back down onto this structure later on when it's all painted.
Here's the shot with the 2-1/2" x 2-1/2" x .188" wall square tube in position...
As expected, when I put that tube into position, it hit the front cab support!
Since I need to pick up the loads from the A-pillar roll bar, the rockslider needs to get directly below that cab support. Several years ago when first started this project, these rusty cab supports were lovingly replaced and restored..... and I thought for sure that work I'd done would last forever. Last night, I said "screw it" and chopped right into them with my abrasive wheel......
At the front cab support area of the rockslider, I also needed to get the loading back into the framerail itself, and a logical place to do it was under the factory body mount bracket since it's already lined-up with the cab support that I'd just hacked apart. Digging through my pile of old "takeoff" frame brackets (I had TWO frames, so I've got extras of everything!) and found the bracket I needed.
The concept was to build a stronger 1/4" thick plate that would be sandwiched directly behind the body mount bracket..... this would allow my to use all the same mounting holes that I already had, and give me a solid place to weld the 12" section of square tubing that comes in from the outer rockslider area.
Along the way, I realized that the factory holes in those cab support brackets are FAR from accurate, and since I was spacing the bracket away from the frame an additional 1/4" anyway, the center hole was going to have to move a little bit....
It worked out pretty slick... I clamped it down securely and used my annular cutter to remove a small crescent shape of steel, then immediately recycled it by welding it back to the bracket on the opposite side to create a new hole about 1/2" further inboard than it was....
Sweet.
It was a bit of a hassle to get the old bracket out, and the new "custom" bracket into place but I eventually prevailed....
The payoff for all of this work is seen in the following photo:
You can see (through my conveniently located tire clearance hole in the firewall ) that the A-Pillar is directly above this forward rockslider mount, and that the mount also now ties-in cleanly to the frame area...and tucks in right under the factory cab support mount. Obviously, I'll have to drill out an access hole for the cab support bolt before I make this all permanent... but this shows the basic idea about how the rocksliders are going to get their support not only from the side (frame) but from above (roll cage). This whole assembly is going to end up really tight and rigid once all these items are locked together.
Can't wait for some more time in the shop tonight!!!!
-G
As it was happening yesterday, it didn't seem like there was going to be much to talk about for this update. But after looking at all the photos and uploading them, it's clear that there actually IS quite a bit to tell you....
When we last left this discussion, I was working to get a solid cross-sill assembly figured out for the B-pillar area.... so on Sunday morning, that's where I picked up my work again.
The cross sill is based on a 3" x 2" x .188" (3/16") wall tube. It fits in the space above the factory framerails really well... even without a body lift. However, the problem I ran into was that by the time I got the entire plate/mounting system into position the way I wanted it, there just wasn't enough room for it to sit flat on top of the framerail (unmodified).
Fortunately, the solution was simple and will ultimately end up being stronger... I cut a 1-1/4" notch to clear the (mini-monolith) brackets that hold my rear upper link mounts and dropped the entire assembly down a bit....
Here's the best shot I can provide of the full tube showing it's position relative to the factory cross sills in that area.
The plates themselves are a bit tricky. The key is that since I will be hard-mounting not only the 10 factory body mounts, but also ALL of these extra cage points... I need the same ability to shim and gap the bodylines at each position, in the same way the factory expected the body mounts themselves to be shimmed. This meant that I had build-in some adjustment space in my bracketry..... and ~3/8" seemed like a generous amount to do that (depicted as a stack of flat washers in the pic below)
Once I had that space reserved, between the underside cage plate and the cross sill landing plate, there was about a 5/8" gap that needed to be filled in with a small section of tube. Since my old 2" x .500" wall DOM link arms weren't going to be doing anything except sitting in the corner, I cut off a short piece and wedged it in there. No worries about strength on THAT part!!
I repeated this same process on the driver's side, though it was a much bigger hassle with the bedside still in place.
Next up was the part I'd been most excited about.... it was time to start the rockslider project!
Some quick background:
The rockslider is intended to get it's support from the framerail itself (like 99% of rocksliders do) but I also wanted to add support in a vertical axis by tying in slider into the A-pillar and B-Pillar mounts using down-bars. This will help tremendously to resist the torsional bending of the framerails when the rockslider is balanced on a rock, and the rockslider tube actually helps to tie the cage together longitudinally, so everything gets stronger in the process.
As it worked out, my flat bellypan framerails can be extended all the way out to the outside edge of the rocker panel, and are in an almost perfect alignment. In this shot you can see that I've clamped some long straight scraps of rectangular tubing to act as a temporary support for the rockslider, and to establish that "level" from the framerails themselves.
The inner rocker is a thin vertical piece of metal directly under the door area. I used a scrap of 3/4" thick lumber to act as a spacer so that I'd have a bit of clearance between the rockslider structure and the body. Remember that the body still needs to be removeable / installable, so I don't want to make all my clearances super-tight, or it will be a nightmare to drop the body back down onto this structure later on when it's all painted.
Here's the shot with the 2-1/2" x 2-1/2" x .188" wall square tube in position...
As expected, when I put that tube into position, it hit the front cab support!
Since I need to pick up the loads from the A-pillar roll bar, the rockslider needs to get directly below that cab support. Several years ago when first started this project, these rusty cab supports were lovingly replaced and restored..... and I thought for sure that work I'd done would last forever.
Last night, I said "screw it" and chopped right into them with my abrasive wheel...... At the front cab support area of the rockslider, I also needed to get the loading back into the framerail itself, and a logical place to do it was under the factory body mount bracket since it's already lined-up with the cab support that I'd just hacked apart. Digging through my pile of old "takeoff" frame brackets (I had TWO frames, so I've got extras of everything!) and found the bracket I needed.
The concept was to build a stronger 1/4" thick plate that would be sandwiched directly behind the body mount bracket..... this would allow my to use all the same mounting holes that I already had, and give me a solid place to weld the 12" section of square tubing that comes in from the outer rockslider area.
Along the way, I realized that the factory holes in those cab support brackets are FAR from accurate, and since I was spacing the bracket away from the frame an additional 1/4" anyway, the center hole was going to have to move a little bit....
It worked out pretty slick... I clamped it down securely and used my annular cutter to remove a small crescent shape of steel, then immediately recycled it by welding it back to the bracket on the opposite side to create a new hole about 1/2" further inboard than it was....
Sweet.
It was a bit of a hassle to get the old bracket out, and the new "custom" bracket into place but I eventually prevailed....
The payoff for all of this work is seen in the following photo:
You can see (through my conveniently located tire clearance hole in the firewall
) that the A-Pillar is directly above this forward rockslider mount, and that the mount also now ties-in cleanly to the frame area...and tucks in right under the factory cab support mount. Obviously, I'll have to drill out an access hole for the cab support bolt before I make this all permanent... but this shows the basic idea about how the rocksliders are going to get their support not only from the side (frame) but from above (roll cage). This whole assembly is going to end up really tight and rigid once all these items are locked together.Can't wait for some more time in the shop tonight!!!!
-G
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......and by the way, that cab support is not done getting carved-up.
I need to sneak the collector from my outboarded headers into that space too......
Probably something like this....
Hopefully, there will be enough room in the "torsion box" area to sneak in a set of cherry bombs or purple hornies or some kind of awesome glasspack exhaust.
-G
I need to sneak the collector from my outboarded headers into that space too......
Probably something like this....
Hopefully, there will be enough room in the "torsion box" area to sneak in a set of cherry bombs or purple hornies or some kind of awesome glasspack exhaust.
-G
hahahah Where is the sound system going to go?
Where is the sound system going to go?I don't recall the exhaust discussion, and there is probably no room for pipes inside the framerails because of the monolith, but since you are building headers anyway, consider a single exhaust. With the popularity of huge diesel exhausts, it is now easy to get single pipe in 3" to 5" sizes. I recently did a new exhaust on my 72 in 2.5" into a merge pipe in 3.5" in order to make room for an underbed fuel tank on one side of the driveshaft. It is kind of surprising how much room is freed up when you only have one tailpipe and muffler, even if it is large pipe.
Yep. The monolith and the tall front upper link mount killed all the available space on the passenger side. The driver side is a little better but the monolith still eats a lot of room....... I'm not sure how I'd EVER get the passenger side crossed over to the driver's side to merge them into a single large exhaust either....
I decided quite a while ago to just build custom outboarded headers and run them as true-duals out the back. I would have liked to get an H-pipe or X-pipe in there somewhere but there's just no room left.
-G
bp71k5
3/4 ton status
So is the plan to connect the a pillar cage plate down onto that square tube with something or try and use the cab support structure to hold those together?
Definitely adding a beefier intermediate support.
....something similar to what I did in the B-pillar area, slightly modified. I'm guessing some kind of thick-walled DOM that runs through the cab support area (vertically) and is welded to the underside of the floor plate, and then terminates in some kind of flat plate that's visible from below the cab support.
Obviously, I still need to leave my "shim gap" area (~3/8") and then a mounting plate that gets welded to those new 2-1/2" square tube structures.
I think it will make sense to also do a triangular tube from the A-pillar cage plate in the footwell, up high in the firewall area to pick up the backside of the engine cradle plates..... and also a horizontal bar that connects from that same firewall spot back to the A-pillar (will end up being hidden visually by the dash when it's reinstalled).
That will fully triangulate the front A-pillar / rockslider and firewall areas... and should add even MORE torsional stiffness to that area.
-G
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bp71k5
3/4 ton status
Makes sense. Will be interesting to see what you come up with.
Geeze I leave for something like three years and look what happens!! 
Heading your way soon bud, we'll catch up then.
Heading your way soon bud, we'll catch up then.
K20Chevrolet
1/2 ton status
......and by the way, that cab support is not done getting carved-up.
I need to sneak the collector from my outboarded headers into that space too......
Probably something like this....
Hopefully, there will be enough room in the "torsion box" area to sneak in a set of cherry bombs or purple hornies or some kind of awesome glasspack exhaust.
-G
What header flanges and what tubing (maybe a kit) are you going to use on your custom headers? Will the exaust running on the outside of the frame clear the tire at full bump and lock?
Zoomies for the win!
Just kidding, everything looks awesome as usual, crazy how much steel you have hiding under that body.
Just kidding, everything looks awesome as usual, crazy how much steel you have hiding under that body.
Geeze I leave for something like three years and look what happens!!
Heading your way soon bud, we'll catch up then.
Welcome back Kurt! Yeah three years is about 1500 man-hours of work since the last time you checked in....glad you can see a difference!
Not sure. I ruined a set of Hooker headers when I chopped them up originally, so I will probably reuse the flanges from those and some of the tubing, then fill in what I still need with some J-bends from Summit.
Thanks! I'm trying to add only what's necessary to get the structure I need in the rockslider area.....nobody wants to see an 8000Lb 1st Gen Build!
-G
2014.10.06 - UPDATE! - FLOPPY FLOORS & HEATED SEATS..!!!
The packaging of critical components continues.....
Last night, I spent some more time looking at the real-estate created by closing off the rockslider / frame area and since I have already decided to run the exhaust collectors into that area, it seemed like a good idea to try to fit the mufflers in there too.
The only catch was that there is a factory floor brace in the way. It runs front-to-back across the middle of the floor on each side and is SUPPOSED to strengthen the floor. It's performance is dubious at best, and I'm sure I can come up with something stronger (certainly something with more speed holes!) and since it was in my way..... it was removed.
When my truck used to run, I had installed a set of 70-Series Flowmasters on it. They are pretty huge (22" x 10" x 5") so they seemed like a great option to test the available space. If THESE things fit, almost ANYTHING will fit!!!
......and they DO!
So.... now I've got a huge space, with a huge muffler in it, that will be completely protected from underneath by an enormous skidplate. And it's located directly underneath the passenger seat. This is what they call "a single part doing more than one function".....it quiets down the engine noise AND it acts like a terrific seat warmer too. This is luxury that is usually reserved only for the finest luxury cars.... but now I'm bringing it back to 1972 baby!!
(The serious solution is going to involve spending a LOT of money on Jet-Hot coatings, and ThermoTec insulating products)
Ultimately, I want this truck to be quiet most of the time... so hanging massive mufflers is actually part of the plan. What is ALSO part of the plan is adding a set of electric cutouts so that I can "blend in" some extra noise on those occasions where I want to have some fun..... by my current thinking, I should be able to install a set of QTPs (or whatever) just after the header collector passes through the cab support area and into the rockslider cavity..... the exhaust can then be diverted to either go through the quiet muffler, or out the dump pipes. If there is enough room, I would love to run the dump pipes parallel to the muffler and then merge them back into the same common exhaust section just before it exits the side of the truck. That way the truck looks normal with only two exhaust ports total, but with the variable cutouts, I can "tune" the amount of noise I want just by cracking open the butterfly valve more and more.
I think there's room to do it. Here's a shot of the muffler pushed back as far as I can (without trimming more metal). It looks like I might have around 12" of open space in front of the muffler to play around with....
Anyway.... that's all I accomplished last night. Working from underneath is a lot slower than being able to work from the side or above. Especially when you're getting old like me.
-G
The packaging of critical components continues.....
Last night, I spent some more time looking at the real-estate created by closing off the rockslider / frame area and since I have already decided to run the exhaust collectors into that area, it seemed like a good idea to try to fit the mufflers in there too.
The only catch was that there is a factory floor brace in the way. It runs front-to-back across the middle of the floor on each side and is SUPPOSED to strengthen the floor. It's performance is dubious at best, and I'm sure I can come up with something stronger (certainly something with more speed holes!) and since it was in my way..... it was removed.
When my truck used to run, I had installed a set of 70-Series Flowmasters on it. They are pretty huge (22" x 10" x 5") so they seemed like a great option to test the available space. If THESE things fit, almost ANYTHING will fit!!!
......and they DO!
So.... now I've got a huge space, with a huge muffler in it, that will be completely protected from underneath by an enormous skidplate. And it's located directly underneath the passenger seat. This is what they call "a single part doing more than one function".....it quiets down the engine noise AND it acts like a terrific seat warmer too. This is luxury that is usually reserved only for the finest luxury cars.... but now I'm bringing it back to 1972 baby!!
(The serious solution is going to involve spending a LOT of money on Jet-Hot coatings, and ThermoTec insulating products)
Ultimately, I want this truck to be quiet most of the time... so hanging massive mufflers is actually part of the plan. What is ALSO part of the plan is adding a set of electric cutouts so that I can "blend in" some extra noise on those occasions where I want to have some fun..... by my current thinking, I should be able to install a set of QTPs (or whatever) just after the header collector passes through the cab support area and into the rockslider cavity..... the exhaust can then be diverted to either go through the quiet muffler, or out the dump pipes. If there is enough room, I would love to run the dump pipes parallel to the muffler and then merge them back into the same common exhaust section just before it exits the side of the truck. That way the truck looks normal with only two exhaust ports total, but with the variable cutouts, I can "tune" the amount of noise I want just by cracking open the butterfly valve more and more.
I think there's room to do it. Here's a shot of the muffler pushed back as far as I can (without trimming more metal). It looks like I might have around 12" of open space in front of the muffler to play around with....
Anyway.... that's all I accomplished last night. Working from underneath is a lot slower than being able to work from the side or above. Especially when you're getting old like me.
-G
You're gonna leave dents in that asphalt driveway on warm summer days....nobody wants to see an 8000Lb 1st Gen Build!
-G
As long as you can cut straight an exhuast done is way easier to use on headers and tight bends than the stuff most places sell
http:// http://www.pro-werks.com/partlist/979/
http:// http://www.pro-werks.com/partlist/979/
