Nazarethk5
1/2 ton status
Awesome! Thats going to be nasty if you hotrod it to. How hard is this swap?
CK5
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86 K5 -"Jacob's monster truck" with a Cummins swap
- Thread starter jt512
- Start date
The swap itself shouldn't be bad at all, there are a few company's that sell bolt-in crossmember and engine mount kits and 12 valvers have almost no wiring to deal with. As soon as I find a tranny I hope to be ready to start test fitting it, maybe by end of summer I'll have it blowing smoke, maybe
.As far as the hot rodding goes, I am still researching but I'm hoping to end up somewhere between 350-400hp at the wheels and a little bit of torque too
.pseudomike
1/2 ton status
Here is a little formula for that 350-400hp potion.....
024 Delivery Valves
SDX II Injectors
16deg Timing on the Pump (can go a little more with studs and a good gasket)
Boost Elbow
Rack plug
4" Exhaust
I recommend a custom ground fuel plate, run it without one, watch egt, grind accordingly.
If you have A/C a common rail manifold or F600, or 6BT industrial app that dumps 90deg down and in the rear is the best bet to clear the box. If you go that route, ditch the HX35 and pick up a HE351CW because it won't require clocking and dicking around with feed lines. Also good for a bit more power.
I have a friend that hit 412hp and 990tq with this combo. You'll need twins for much more.
That Gen II intercooler and radiator fit like they were meant to in our supports.
Buy a good clutch kit, think 13" Valair or South bend because you are going to need it.
I recommend 3.54 gears unless you are running 38's or something. That D70 in your donor is the same width as the D60 GM frnt and makes a nice swap into our trucks. You should be thinking about a D60 frnt if you haven't. you can use a first gen or gm. probably easier to score a first gen with the correct gears or score a GM and swap the R&P out of that donor if it's a 4wd.
Mike
024 Delivery Valves
SDX II Injectors
16deg Timing on the Pump (can go a little more with studs and a good gasket)
Boost Elbow
Rack plug
4" Exhaust
I recommend a custom ground fuel plate, run it without one, watch egt, grind accordingly.
If you have A/C a common rail manifold or F600, or 6BT industrial app that dumps 90deg down and in the rear is the best bet to clear the box. If you go that route, ditch the HX35 and pick up a HE351CW because it won't require clocking and dicking around with feed lines. Also good for a bit more power.
I have a friend that hit 412hp and 990tq with this combo. You'll need twins for much more.
That Gen II intercooler and radiator fit like they were meant to in our supports.
Buy a good clutch kit, think 13" Valair or South bend because you are going to need it.
I recommend 3.54 gears unless you are running 38's or something. That D70 in your donor is the same width as the D60 GM frnt and makes a nice swap into our trucks. You should be thinking about a D60 frnt if you haven't. you can use a first gen or gm. probably easier to score a first gen with the correct gears or score a GM and swap the R&P out of that donor if it's a 4wd.
Mike
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Hey Mike, thanks for the great info 
.
After some more disassembly it looks like I will be ditching the stock turbo, it got a little friendly with the housing and has some shaft wiggle so I may or may not go aftermarket. As far as clearance, I have no HVAC stuff on the firewall at all, so that should make life a little simpler.
Who makes/ sells the SDX injectors?
I am going to be running 38"s so I'm thinking 4.10's should be about right with a nv4500.?
South bend will be my clutch of choice, just not sure on the flavor yet.
I'm torn on running the 14 bolt I already have or keeping the 70 and using it, either one will need top be regeared so, we'll see.
So your saying to use the Dodge radiator as opposed to a GM, I had planned on using a 4 core that was like new when I bought this K5, but if the dodge will be better I'll use it.
Thanks again, I have been lurking over on 4BT swaps, read MaxPF's build last night lots of cool info there as well as some familiar names
.After some more disassembly it looks like I will be ditching the stock turbo, it got a little friendly with the housing and has some shaft wiggle so I may or may not go aftermarket. As far as clearance, I have no HVAC stuff on the firewall at all, so that should make life a little simpler.
Who makes/ sells the SDX injectors?
I am going to be running 38"s so I'm thinking 4.10's should be about right with a nv4500.?
South bend will be my clutch of choice, just not sure on the flavor yet.
I'm torn on running the 14 bolt I already have or keeping the 70 and using it, either one will need top be regeared so, we'll see.
So your saying to use the Dodge radiator as opposed to a GM, I had planned on using a 4 core that was like new when I bought this K5, but if the dodge will be better I'll use it.
Thanks again, I have been lurking over on 4BT swaps, read MaxPF's build last night lots of cool info there as well as some familiar names
pseudomike
1/2 ton status
SDX is Southern Diesel Extreme. I would recommend the SDX II also known as the 5x12. You could go with a 5x14 if you plan on major/twin turbos some day just go easy with them because they could melt that stock turbo down in quick time. There are of course others you could use. Stay away from the marine stuff. Cummins matches spray angle of the injector with the angle on the piston dome. Will they go in and give you power...sure...just wait till you melt a piston and wish you had your $400 back. Buy good injectors! Unlike most things more money doesn't always mean you got a good set. There are guys re-badging marine injectors and selling them for more than a true good set.
38's with 4.10's should be good. You want to be around 1800-1900RPm at freeway speed for good mileage. 38's with NV4500 (.73:1 OD) and 4.10's will get you about 1900RPM at 71-72mph.
If sticking with 4.10's I would keep the 14 bolt and upgrade to 1410 or 1480 yokes. The 14 bolt has strengths over the Dana 70. The D70 is notorious for breaking pinion shafts with big HP and TRq. Probably wouldn't be an issue if you aren't sled pulling but something to watch out for. The only advantage of the D70 over the 14B is availability of 7.13 gears. Since you aren't going that high really makes no sense to mess with it. 4.10 in 14B is also an easy flavor and drops right in. You really should consider a D60 up front at some point. 38's and an 1100lb power plant sitting over a 10B or D44 equals short life.
I have a Valair, it's stiff and the pressure plate springs rattle at idle in neutral like a Toyota. other than that it is a good unit. I think the South Bend is a little more but worth the money from what I am told. I found it easier to get a '96up GM NV4500 and install a Dodge front input shaft and Dodge Cummins bell housing. You could get a Dodge NV4500 but have to figure out how to put a NP205 on the back of it. I think you could use a first generation Dodge NP205 with the Dodge NV4500 but the spline count is different and will require modification.
On the radiator, you can run a Dodge or a GM. If you go with a GM all you need is a 2 core, yes a 2 core. Since you have both it's up to you. I used the Dodge radiator and shroud because the overflow tank and wiper reservoir are on the shroud. This yielded room for an additional battery and a big airbox on the pass side. Really up to you. I can't speak for the GM setup other than what I have been told. It was not difficult to get the Dodge unit in there. Both are readily available off the shelf. I bought a new Dodge one from Rock Auto for $173. It also uses factory Dodge radiator hoses if you want something readily available. I was told to install the intercooler from the front of the radiator support. I must be missing something because I could not get it to clear my marker lights that way. I ended up installing it behind the radiator where the A/C condenser once was. Requires some modification, not too bad if you have a torch or a drill to remove spot welds. Also, on the second Gen motors the fan is offset, not direct center of the motor so if you go the GM radiator route you need to fab a shroud or swap the accessories out of a GEN 1 motor to re-center the fan....another reason I ran second gen stuff.
If you plan on running crossover steering watch the mounts you go with. Some of the vendors don't mention this but they won't work with crossover steering.
4BTswaps has a ton of info. Some of the guys are royal pric#ks if you ask newbie questions so best to search first.
The HX35 turbo is a worthy unit for what you are looking to do and relatively inexpensive. You could also go with one of those hybrid deals if you want a little more getty up and go.
38's with 4.10's should be good. You want to be around 1800-1900RPm at freeway speed for good mileage. 38's with NV4500 (.73:1 OD) and 4.10's will get you about 1900RPM at 71-72mph.
If sticking with 4.10's I would keep the 14 bolt and upgrade to 1410 or 1480 yokes. The 14 bolt has strengths over the Dana 70. The D70 is notorious for breaking pinion shafts with big HP and TRq. Probably wouldn't be an issue if you aren't sled pulling but something to watch out for. The only advantage of the D70 over the 14B is availability of 7.13 gears. Since you aren't going that high really makes no sense to mess with it. 4.10 in 14B is also an easy flavor and drops right in. You really should consider a D60 up front at some point. 38's and an 1100lb power plant sitting over a 10B or D44 equals short life.
I have a Valair, it's stiff and the pressure plate springs rattle at idle in neutral like a Toyota. other than that it is a good unit. I think the South Bend is a little more but worth the money from what I am told. I found it easier to get a '96up GM NV4500 and install a Dodge front input shaft and Dodge Cummins bell housing. You could get a Dodge NV4500 but have to figure out how to put a NP205 on the back of it. I think you could use a first generation Dodge NP205 with the Dodge NV4500 but the spline count is different and will require modification.
On the radiator, you can run a Dodge or a GM. If you go with a GM all you need is a 2 core, yes a 2 core. Since you have both it's up to you. I used the Dodge radiator and shroud because the overflow tank and wiper reservoir are on the shroud. This yielded room for an additional battery and a big airbox on the pass side. Really up to you. I can't speak for the GM setup other than what I have been told. It was not difficult to get the Dodge unit in there. Both are readily available off the shelf. I bought a new Dodge one from Rock Auto for $173. It also uses factory Dodge radiator hoses if you want something readily available. I was told to install the intercooler from the front of the radiator support. I must be missing something because I could not get it to clear my marker lights that way. I ended up installing it behind the radiator where the A/C condenser once was. Requires some modification, not too bad if you have a torch or a drill to remove spot welds. Also, on the second Gen motors the fan is offset, not direct center of the motor so if you go the GM radiator route you need to fab a shroud or swap the accessories out of a GEN 1 motor to re-center the fan....another reason I ran second gen stuff.
If you plan on running crossover steering watch the mounts you go with. Some of the vendors don't mention this but they won't work with crossover steering.
4BTswaps has a ton of info. Some of the guys are royal pric#ks if you ask newbie questions so best to search first.
The HX35 turbo is a worthy unit for what you are looking to do and relatively inexpensive. You could also go with one of those hybrid deals if you want a little more getty up and go.
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pseudomike
1/2 ton status
I forgot 4k governor springs in that short list. A good upgrade but wise to go with 4k 60lb valve springs if going that route.
pseudomike
1/2 ton status
pseudomike
1/2 ton status
Something else I just thought of when you said you thought you had found a Np205 for the project is that it's a lot cheaper to get a 32 spline round case on that NV4500 then it is the figure 8. Both can be done but the adapter for the round setup is under $200 where the figure 8 setup is like 5-600. The round case can actually be done cheaper if you have a short input to put in it because you won't need any adapter. The advantage to using the long input and AA adapter is that they make a shift bracket for it. I have to be honest with you though that their bracket is kinda a POS and will need some slight fabrication to make it usable. Easier than starting from scratch but not ideal. A cable setup would be the best workaround. Another thing is that your NP205 will be totally unsupported off the back of that NV4500 which for some reason I can't understand came with a cast aluminum tail housing. Cast versions are available. I have a source on them for something like $250. I have no connection to the guy, just know that he sells them and doesn't really advertise it.
Mike
Mike
Thanks for the heads up , the t case I "thought" I had found turned out to be the wrong one, it was a dodge 23 spline not a 29.
After lots of reading and price checking and more reading and price checking I am going to go the GM NV4500 route and I have located 2 round pattern 205's.
On that note, what trans did the short input come behind?
I have a 465 figure 8 205 combo I'm going to ship, and go round and I found a shop that has a pretty good deal on the adapter if I end up with a long input.
From your earlier post, I've already got a D60 front and it's 4.10 so I'm thinking I'll re gear the 14 bolt (currently 3.73) since I already blasted it, welded the tubes and have disc brackets for it. Going to do a 1410 yoke on it and a detroit as well.
Now as soon as I come up with some cash I'll be set
Thanks again for all the advice and tips, if it wasn't for my fellow CK5ers I would have never attemped something like this,...........................................I guess that's a good thing
, the t case I "thought" I had found turned out to be the wrong one, it was a dodge 23 spline not a 29. After lots of reading and price checking and more reading and price checking I am going to go the GM NV4500 route and I have located 2 round pattern 205's.
On that note, what trans did the short input come behind?
I have a 465 figure 8 205 combo I'm going to ship, and go round and I found a shop that has a pretty good deal on the adapter if I end up with a long input.
From your earlier post, I've already got a D60 front and it's 4.10 so I'm thinking I'll re gear the 14 bolt (currently 3.73) since I already blasted it, welded the tubes and have disc brackets for it. Going to do a 1410 yoke on it and a detroit as well.
Now as soon as I come up with some cash I'll be set
Thanks again for all the advice and tips, if it wasn't for my fellow CK5ers I would have never attemped something like this,...........................................I guess that's a good thing
pseudomike
1/2 ton status
The 32 spline short input was found on the figure 8 cases. I'm not sure if it was found on all of them. I know the early Th400/205 combos had them. I think the year range to find them would be 1979-1985 which would be just about any figure 8 setup that was behind a TH400. The later 465 setups had 32 spline as well but were long input round cases. The short input stick out of the case about 2", the long is something like 3 5/8".
The forum is here to help others in my book. It has returned the favor to me more than once.
The forum is here to help others in my book. It has returned the favor to me more than once.
Well, not a big update, but, it's amazing what a little degreaser and a power washer can do
My homebuilt stand (copied from sixb) works great, and the engine really came out looking pretty good.
Most of the dodge donor is gone, and with what I have sold from it and what the "remains" brought in scrap, I'm only into this engine (and all accesories) for about $700
, and I still have a D70, a door and the seats left.
I also check on the KDP today and was pleasently surprised to see it had not moved at all, I pulled a few of the rocker boxes as well , this thing looks like new inside !!!
I am going to get my seal kits ordered this week and I think I'm going to go ahead and head stud it and re gasket the head, just in case I ever wanna make BIG power.
My homebuilt stand (copied from sixb) works great, and the engine really came out looking pretty good.
Most of the dodge donor is gone, and with what I have sold from it and what the "remains" brought in scrap, I'm only into this engine (and all accesories) for about $700
, and I still have a D70, a door and the seats left.I also check on the KDP today and was pleasently surprised to see it had not moved at all, I pulled a few of the rocker boxes as well , this thing looks like new inside !!!
I am going to get my seal kits ordered this week and I think I'm going to go ahead and head stud it and re gasket the head, just in case I ever wanna make BIG power
.
sixb
1/2 ton status
NiceI thought that stand looked familar
I thought that stand looked familar
offroadblazer764x4
1/2 ton status
Nice work thats gona be sweet
I love the build man, way to do it right the first time. I used to have a first gen dodge that put down 500+ horse power and man that thing was a blast, nothing better than roasting a set of swampers through 2 intersections.
BTW. Where are you in MD? I just moved here from N. Idaho and would love to hook up with some local Chevy guys.
BTW. Where are you in MD? I just moved here from N. Idaho and would love to hook up with some local Chevy guys.
odin
1/2 ton status
Updates???
Updates.............well............between a crazy work schedule for the last 3-4 months and the recent oppresive heat wave I haven't had a chance to really do much on the truck. I do however have a nice pile of parts ready and waiting for install. I hope to get the drivetrain into it's new home in the next couple of weeks, my transmission, bellhousing stuff, and clutch will be getting ordered this week as well as some other misc. stuff.
I think I am going to end up a little over the original 400 rwhp goal I had set, I was however at least able to talk myself out of doing a set of twins and sticking to a built single charger. With any luck when it's together I should be looking at around 425+ and somewhere in the neighborhood of 4 digit torque at the wheels , and still be able to get some actual decent mpg's if I keep my foot out of it.
I had better get something done soon because Jacob is getting quite impatient with me and told me the other day if I didn't start working on his blazer soon HE was going to do it himself
.
-stumpjump -- I live in Harford Co. , north of Bel Air, but work all over MD, DC , northern VA and into PA. My shop/ offices are just outside of the of the city off of Washington Blvd.
I think I am going to end up a little over the original 400 rwhp goal I had set
, I was however at least able to talk myself out of doing a set of twins and sticking to a built single charger. With any luck when it's together I should be looking at around 425+ and somewhere in the neighborhood of 4 digit torque at the wheels , and still be able to get some actual decent mpg's if I keep my foot out of it. I had better get something done soon because Jacob is getting quite impatient with me and told me the other day if I didn't start working on his blazer soon HE was going to do it himself
.-stumpjump -- I live in Harford Co. , north of Bel Air, but work all over MD, DC , northern VA and into PA. My shop/ offices are just outside of the of the city off of Washington Blvd.
Nazarethk5
1/2 ton status
updates?
DEMON44
Low-Tech Redneck
you definately don't need a rack plug, DVs or injectors to make 350hp. set up your timing and grind a zero plate full forward is more than a stock clutch or auto is going to like anyways. swap in 181 dvs for the 131s you have in there you'll have more than enough fuel.
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Updates.............well............between a crazy work schedule for the last 3-4 months and the recent oppresive heat wave I haven't had a chance to really do much on the truck. I do however have a nice pile of parts ready and waiting for install. I hope to get the drivetrain into it's new home in the next couple of weeks, my transmission, bellhousing stuff, and clutch will be getting ordered this week as well as some other misc. stuff.
I think I am going to end up a little over the original 400 rwhp goal I had set
I had better get something done soon because Jacob is getting quite impatient with me and told me the other day if I didn't start working on his blazer soon HE was going to do it himself
-stumpjump -- I live in Harford Co. , north of Bel Air, but work all over MD, DC , northern VA and into PA. My shop/ offices are just outside of the of the city off of Washington Blvd.
Well since no one has mentionned this, I think I should:
If you are putting a cummins in this thing, you NEED to beef up your frame.
I had a 5.8 TD perkins with 410 lbs of TQ and 175 HP in my 76 K5 and after 6 years the frame developped stress cracks in 6 locations from the steering box area all the way to a few inches from the first body mount under the cab.
I am now working with a thicker 1ton frame from a crew cab and I am going to reinforce the frame with bracing.
It's true I did wheel mine a lot and the twisting doesn't help but the vibration and the torque just was too much for the K5 frame.
Just something to think about since you are still building it, it's easy enough to figure something out now.
Good build so far, keep it up.
