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97 King Cab DS-Ton build - Rock Jock 60 and shaved 14

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I don't know man. The over loads I'm thinking of wouldn't touch the spring St ride height but would help keep the spring supported during inversion. I'm thinking of a flat or even an arched, flipped over load. But it sounds like your trying to talk yourself into links right now.
 
r3dd0g said:
The ride would be miserable with the overloads in, that's not an option for me and I don't really want to spend more money on springs that I know aren't going to work.

I think I would be happy with the ORD springs, I am just worried about longevity. I am trying to make this rig a nice reliable wheeler.

I can definitely get the fab work done by Blazer Bash and I could swing the money for any of the options, but it would be easier if I waited until after the bash for sure. Obviously I'd rather fix it for $200 than $3000, but the $200 fix is a band-aid to get me through another 6 months to a year.
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We can do rear springs and they would be a lot more durable than the Pro Comp ones, but you're going to be just into 4 digits into those too. The long springs are expensive.

I would link it. Take the shocks out of the cost equation (assume you need the same level of shock regardless) and the cost isn't much different.
 
I'm thinking something like this at ride height.

DSC01277.jpg
 
y5mgisi said:
I'm thinking something like this at ride height.
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The Pro-Comp overloads have quite a bit of curve to them, so much that they would be contacting the lower leaf with just the weight of the truck on it. I could go with a factory 64" overload, but I don't know how much that would help.

38377k5 said:
We can do rear springs and they would be a lot more durable than the Pro Comp ones, but you're going to be just into 4 digits into those too. The long springs are expensive.

I would link it. Take the shocks out of the cost equation (assume you need the same level of shock regardless) and the cost isn't much different.
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The $1200 estimate was for your rear springs (including shipping) so I am aware of the cost.

The decision for linking would be coil spring or air shocks.

If I went coil spring I wouldn't need new shocks and I was guessing I'd be in about $2000 by the time I got 8 Ballistic style joints, heat treated chromoly lower links, Blazer gas tank, assorted fuel line extensions, fuel door to graft in, assorted link mount brackets, coil buckets, one or two sets of coil springs etc. etc. I may be able to come in below that, but not much.

The major cost difference with air shocks is the shocks themselves, they would run just under $1000. Obviously I wouldn't need the coil springs or coil buckets but pretty much everything else would be the same. That's why I was estimating $3000 there.

My big thing is that I don't have any experience with coil springs or air shocks. The biggest advantage for the air shocks that I see is the ability to change the spring rate/ride height as necessary based on load. I assume that coil springs would be fairly close to the coilovers I'm running up front without the adjustibility or expensive shock absorbers. I could get 2 sets of coil springs and swap them out when I'm planning on doing an overland run, but that's a lot more work than just adjusting the nitrogen pressure.

What are your thoughts on King air shocks VS coil spring suspension? It seems like the general consensus is the same as mine, stop screwing with leaf springs and link it.
 
if it were me and time budget wasn't there to do before BB I would mess with some junkyard springs on the cheap then link it after BB. I couldn't justify $1000+ leaf springs and when its all done you still have a leaf spring suspension. I have never run standard air shocks myself but the few in our group that do I'd be leary unless a light weight purpose built rig. I do like the ORIs but that adds even more cost but is nice to pretty easy change ride height and ride quality pretty easy. Or maybe the coil springs with an aux airbag setup for weight? I think it would suck to have to change springs out for one trip or the other. Heck it would still suck to change air pressure too.
 
The 2.5" King air shocks are rated for 1200lbs each, compared to the 2" which are only rated for 500lbs. The rear of my rig should be well under 2400 lbs.

ORIs wouldn't work for me for the same reason coilovers won't work. I don't have the space between the wheel and frame. I have a 2.5" body shock (RS9000) in there now and the tires rub on it, I plan on moving them a little to make room if I put air shocks in.

I'd like to hear from someone that was running 2.5" air shocks honestly. As far as swapping springs out, that wouldn't be too bad, maybe a 30 minute job. I wouldn't be changing them out often, maybe once or twice a year.
 
I have no personal experience with air shocks but I never hear good things and the guys I've wheeled with never seem super excited about them. Any chance you can fit a couple $ worth of air bags next to (or in front of/behind) some coil springs?
 
these 2 rig here run 2.5" air shocks front/rear and have some crazy leaning characteristics. If it wasn't for the crazy width and weight of the axles/wheel I think they would be on their lids often. Clint can mask the leaning and unloading with front and rear suck downs in the Dodge. The Dodge has good link geometery but the s10 has some interesting wishbone stuff going on. In you application with the front being more stable though I could see it being less of an issue if you can keep the front level let the rear do whatever to follow theory....

P1030473.jpg

IMG00071-20100424-1657.jpg
 
I would think I would have the same issue with the coil springs though. I was already worried about that aspect and assumed at some point that i would have to add a rear sway bar.

Even with just the more compliant leaf springs I noticed that it tossed the cab back and forth more than with the old leaf springs. Basically until the rear suspension is on the stop, the front suspension isn't going to flex much.

Prior to this thread, the only bad thing I had heard about air shocks is that they tend to extend as they get hot. While I do some desert bashing with this rig, it's definitely not something I do all the time so I don't think it would be that much of an issue.
 
my personal experiences with these rigs too might be partially because of how big and heavy they are/or crazy link geometry, kinda one of those "your results may vary" instances.
 
MNorby said:
P1030473.jpg
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That Dodge has miles of roll steer, I wouldn't consider that great link geometry. I know he hangs with you guys which is all that really matters.

Personally I think coil springs (think Grand Cherokee or early Bronco front coils, the tallest you can get) with air bags are the ticket.

I'm a huge fan of the cartridge style joints, I've had Ballistic ones (:ignore:) in the rear of my Blazer since 06/07 and they've been flawless. Haven't even had to tighten them. I went with Summit Machine's version on the front, no issues so far. GREAT build quality on the Summit joints.

We use Currie Johnny Joints in our coilover kits and have very little issue with them, they're probably the oldest name in joints like that and have the most miles.
 
38377k5 said:
That Dodge has miles of roll steer, I wouldn't consider that great link geometry. I know he hangs with you guys which is all that really matters.

Personally I think coil springs (think Grand Cherokee or early Bronco front coils, the tallest you can get) with air bags are the ticket.

I'm a huge fan of the cartridge style joints, I've had Ballistic ones (:ignore:) in the rear of my Blazer since 06/07 and they've been flawless. Haven't even had to tighten them. I went with Summit Machine's version on the front, no issues so far. GREAT build quality on the Summit joints.

We use Currie Johnny Joints in our coilover kits and have very little issue with them, they're probably the oldest name in joints like that and have the most miles.
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Angle of the pic plus rear steer. Looks like he is steering into it hence him looking backwards. I could be wrong though.
 
'97 King Cab S-10 Build - AKA The Rock Limo

38377k5 said:
You definitely could be right, I've never wheeled with the guy and looking at the picture I may have jumped to a conclusion.
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Yah I was kinda thinking the same thing then I noticed the big psc double ended ram.

Edit yah he is definitely steering into it. Ram isn't centered.
 
I think his link calculator numbers are on his build and seemed like they were pretty adequate. He drives with the rear steer more than the front steering because "its easier to move the joystick than the wheel, and because I can".
Here is about the best shot I have of it leaning. The S10 does it much worse. You results may vary though.
P1020312.jpg
 
The ori struts seem like such a better package to me. Adjustable, bump stops, and limit straps, in one package. Way less screwing around imo.
 
Deuling said:
The ori struts seem like such a better package to me. Adjustable, bump stops, and limit straps, in one package. Way less screwing around imo.
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They also cost quite a bit more (~$670 each instead of $400) and they are 3.26" diameter making them even tougher to fit in the small space I have. I'd love to do the ORIs, but that's another $550 on top of what is already going to be an expensive upgrade.
 
I have driven a rig on ORIs all the way around. It handled awesome very little body roll. Less than any similar leaf spring rig. In fact it felt better hustling through a corner than a stock TJ does.

That said with space limitation the air shocks can work but they will make the truck lean and they tend to unload some going down steep hills. Link geometry can limit this somewhat but that can only do so much. I would say run a rear swaybar with air shocks. I have helped tune alot of the roll out of air shocks but it did stiffen up the ride. On a truck as long as yours it would be less of a problem than on the rig I was working on.

If you are gonna go into negative arch with a leaf spring I say link it however you can and deal with the consequences. Any discussion I have had with deaver they said going into negative arch will decrease the life span of the spring even if it was designed to do so
 
On the sonoma I had those timbren bump stops on the front leafs and had them set so they were just hitting when the spring went flat but on a hard hit they would allow the spring to negative arch briefly since the timbren will progressively arch with more weight. Maybe do something similar to make another set of leafs live?
 
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