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Time to build a suspension... (looking for input on springs)

Blazooki said:
Tension shackle is not bad it's just different. Compression shackle is not better it's also different. Both have limitations and don't work well with extremes in different ways.
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This is what I was trying to say.

Campy, you already have a tension shackle, just leave it and buy some new springs or heck even toss in a block... You are not trying to reinvent the wheel and want simplicity so don't make it harder on yourself. Don't do what I did and over complicate the build and take 4 years to get it going just to blow it up every 30 miles. :haha:
 
blazinzuk said:
Leaf springs don't work well in extremes LOL
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If that was ment for me that's not what I said or think. I was specifically talking about individual parts. IE..Throw a set of 8 inch shackles on a flip to get more lift and then cant figure out why their springs all torsion twisted and their shackles invert. People do stuff like that all the time and wonder why stuff doesn't work. Then they say shackle flips suck.
 
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Babaganoosh said:
Because at the time I didn't know and fell into the shackle flip and stock springs are the shiiiiiznit and a set of 63's cost me $100 with some new brackets, the new design I should be into it no more then $250 that will net me cheap "long travel" and is a proven setup.

I'm not the greatest at explaining why things happen but this is a AWESOME read on leaf springs and how they work and what effects it will have.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/jeep-willys/2283090-leaf-spring-suspension-geometry.html
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I have added this to the reading list. :)
 
Babaganoosh said:
This is what I was trying to say.

Campy, you already have a tension shackle, just leave it and buy some new springs or heck even toss in a block... You are not trying to reinvent the wheel and want simplicity so don't make it harder on yourself. Don't do what I did and over complicate the build and take 4 years to get it going just to blow it up every 30 miles. :haha:
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I have no desire to adopt the squirrel approach. :haha:

That's why I'm gathering ideas now ahead of time. :)
 
campfire said:
Did you get what you were looking for? (Aside from the equipment failures, it is what you set out to build, no?)
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Yes, it will drive 80mph down the highway with one hand on the wheel, I would like to add a sway bar but isn't completely sketchy.

Offroad performance, the rear lacks a lot with the 56's and shackle flip only cause the front is so awesome.
 
Campy, about the 10 bolt/D44 vs D60 thing, talk to Wade (ktmoutfront ). He catches air with a "small" axle up front. Without breaking it. Oh, I forgot my old boss did a pass in his 1200 hp Ramcharger mud truck on 2 wheels...with A D44 up front...


I use to have a pic of that somewhere...

I have similar plans that you do. I'm starting with a 4" lift, most likely TC springs for the front and a 4.5" shackle flip out back. Zero rates to adjust to taste. Decent shocks of course. As for steering, I'm not going to fix it if it ain't broke. I have most of the parts now, but it's my dd for now so I keep waiting...

I want a capable family rig that will get us in and out. I plan on leaving it to one of my kids or grandkids.
 
Next question for ORD. I like their new rear shock brace, but the catalog entry specifically says it will not fit K30s or suburbans.

http://offroaddesign.com/catalog/RearShockBrace.htm

@Stephen, what keeps it from fitting on the Suburban frame? Is there a body mount in the way? :dunno:

I already had to weld one of the shock mounts back together, so I like this idea a bunch.
 
campfire said:
Next question for ORD. I like their new rear shock brace, but the catalog entry specifically says it will not fit K30s or suburbans.

http://offroaddesign.com/catalog/RearShockBrace.htm

@Stephen, what keeps it from fitting on the Suburban frame? Is there a body mount in the way? :dunno:

I already had to weld one of the shock mounts back together, so I like this idea a bunch.
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Yep, body mount in the way. Hopefully we'll do a version that fits 'burbs at some point.
 
So after all of this what I get out of it is no shackle flip, run custom leafs front and rear, the the best shocks I can buy and a dropped pitman arm. Or go linked front and rear with coilovers and crossover steering. Did I miss anything?
 
Csm Davis said:
So after all of this what I get out of it is no shackle flip, run custom leafs front and rear, the the best shocks I can buy and a dropped pitman arm. Or go linked front and rear with coilovers and crossover steering. Did I miss anything?
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Yes and get the best your pocket book will allow.
 
campfire said:
I'm looking through shocks this week. Where did he find 2.0 Fox shocks for $500, and what length of shock did he run? I was under the impression that these shocks were too bulky to fit in the front shock mounts. Did he rework the shock mounts, and (if so) what did he do?

I've found nothing cheaper than $150 apiece.

http://www.shop.com/Fox+Racing+Shox...8&cadevice=c&gclid=CICM-cmxms8CFUw9gQodo1UAyg
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My .02 on this. Great Thread BTW! In my research I found that BDS offers "FOX 2.0" as an upgrade with their kits, but they differ from the 2.0s you can buy directly from FOX. They appear to be something built for BDS. I haven't found any actual specs to compare them to the actual 2.0s, but it appears they are not rebuildable and just a Fox Mono tube..probably comparable to the 5100s.

I agree with the majority on the 52" swap. I like mine and think they are a decent trail rig setup, but IMO leave a lot desired for highway use. Can you DD a rig with 52s? Sure, but I wasn't a fan compared to TC EZ rides. Plus as mentioned above moving the axle fwd with 52's almost requires crossover and a new front shaft if you want to utilize the travel they offer. I think a happy medium is a quality set of leafs with good shocks. Build your own mounts and buy the shocks separate from the lift. Most kit shocks are shorter than they need to be because of the stock mounts are the limiting factor.

Speaking of I didn't see anybody mention BDS or Zone. They are a little bit more than the TC stuff, but less than custom springs so could be something to look at. There are a couple guys who are vendors here.

If you want to get into a compression shackle, but replace the rear springs you could also look at the TNA no lift flip kit. It has multiple options to set shackle angle.

Crossover as Eric said is a great upgrade for both on and off road. It IS more expensive on a 10B, but far from a waste. Source junkyard knuckles and steering box. You really only end up having to purchase the steering arm and pitman arm from a company. The draglink is simple enough to build yourself or even have a local shop or buddy do it. Get some 7/8" bungs and 2010 L/R TREs from your local part store. You can really cut the cost down piecing it together yourself. I also didn't see it mentioned, but if you get bit by the MAW bug in the future everything but the steering arm will swap to a 60. I shortened my draglink and tie rod from my 10 bolt and use it on my 60 now. Plus that flat top and steering arm double the value of the 10b when you go to sell it.
 
My '88 'burb with the 3" TCI front springs, flip in the rear and some 5125's was a great bolt on budget setup that drove and rode OK on street and dirt and probably did more "overlanding" than anyone that uses that word has done. I wanted our custom springs on it for the ride quality increase but we skipped some steps and went more directly to a 4 link. That leaf spring recipe with our custom fronts would keep most guys totally happy and leave room for some important things like winch and bumpers, lockers, and some gas money to actually take the truck somewhere fun. Steering with this setup would stay stock with swaybar disconnects and still works good on the street and the offroading that this type of truck would see.

The next step is a set of customs in the back which will only add to ability and the only drawback is cost. At this point you can do crossover or not. Our '99 K2500 is essentially this truck and once again has worked great over some pretty broad terrain. I can say when we took it the Baja I was really happy with the 2.5" shocks.

From there you're into coilovers on front, then coils or coilovers on back and if that doesn't keep you happy we can add more shocks till you are.

You can see that there's an efficient point up in that first paragraph. these recipes and our standard parts for them take care of the known weak points on the truck and will let you use them. Past that you have to use them and solve the problems that become problems FOR YOU. Build it to a solid level and USE IT. It will tell you what you need to work on.
 
Tension shackles work better. Shackle flips work good within a budget. Reason for this is the tension shackle can drop the tail end of the spring by the full height of the shackle when it goes to full droop since the shackle will go from standing straight up to fully horizontal or a little below. This is at least a couple inches of free droop travel compared to a compression shackle. They have some potentially desirable rate gain characteristics when they are overloaded but that's usually not what we're worried about, it's the travel potential that makes them cool to us. It takes a more expensive spring to take advantage of the tension shackle so the flip is the bang-for-the-buck winner. Not the performance winner.
 
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