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700r4 to SM465 swap questions????

There is no parts whoring, or other "classifieds" type stuff allowed in the Garage. Pony up and use the correct forum, or stick to Craigslist...

Rene
 
Hello everyone, I know this is a old thread; but I have read it almost in its entirety because I'm about to do the same thing with my 95 4x4 1500 Silverado (Any more questions about my truck please ask). Granted my Silverado has the 4L60e, from my understanding its pretty much a electronic 700r4 (Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm trying to get as much swap info as possible.)

I got my hands on a SM465-NP208 32 spline combo, complete with bellhousing, shifters crossmember, and even a front driveshaft (Haven't picked it up yet, some of the parts are at another house). As far as I know, since its a 208 xfer case, my existing driveshafts should bolt up no problem? I sure hope that is the case! And the only other things I would be concerned about would be

-Speedometer
-Computer Flash?
-Clutch Pedal? Find one from a scrapper?
-Didn't check if it was a hydraulic tranny (Will look later this week, he lives right down the road from me)
-What else should I keep in mind?

Thanks in advanced, as I see from this lengthy thread everyone seems knowledgeable and willing to help.
 
First things first, your 95 has an IFS front end, which requires a driver's side drop transfer case. The NP208 you picked up will not work in your truck. That said, if your existing transfer case has the correct spline count, it will bolt directly onto the back of the SM465. Since that is the case, you will not need to worry about the speedometer.

You can buy all the clutch pedal stuff new from GM still, and it actually isn't horribly expensive either, under 400 dollars for everything you need brand new. Since you have a 32 spline transmission, I am quite certain it will have a hydraulic clutch on it. That said, it is an external clutch slave and is on the driver's side of the truck, right where your driveshaft will need to be, not to mention that there will probably be a difference in displacement between the two, meaning you'll have to find some way of adapting the older master cylinder to the newer truck's pedals.

I would personally suggest you look into buying an NV3500 or NV4500 5 speed manual transmission that would have come stock in your body style of truck. It will save you a number of headaches and will not loose you your overdrive gear like the SM465 will.

The SM465 really is more of a dump truck transmission anyways. Doesn't drive very nice.
 
First problem I see is the 208 front output is on the wrong side for your truck. The IFS rigs are driver's side drop, the 465/208 is passenger side drop. Unless you're swapping to SFA with a pass drop diff too?

Also, you'd be losing VSS which your computer needs, and losing a working speedo. The 208 has a cable speedo output only.

Rene
 
It could be a an SM465/NP241 combo out of an IFS truck. That would be the best way to swap it.

Also, not all 32 spline SM465's had hydraulic clutches. 1981-1984 K5, K10, and K20's all had 32 spline SM465's with mechanical clutches.

Martin
 
Wow, thank you all for the quick responses. I did not even think about the drivers side dump on my xfer case in my truck. If however my existing transfer case bolts right up then I should have no issues, and will retain the speedo as well.

As for the computer issue, I would get a reprog'd chip, because my truck has many other modifications that really require a chip and I haven't done so yet, so if I go though with this swap then I'll def have to do that anyways.

Martin, I actually would prefer it to be a mechanical clutch, less hassle :D (to some degree lol)

And Russell, I have looked a bit into the NV4500 and I would actually prefer to have one, but my situation is sorta dire right now; my 4l60e has 2/4 working forward gears right now, and I've had the transmission rebuilt once already and it is not under warranty anymore. Plus I'm a college student with a very low weekly income so the less expensive the better; I'm getting this combo for free so I can't really turn down a SM465, I know they are tough ass transmissions too, I have a SM465/NP205 combo in my 72 pickup, and that thing is a monster :) But I will most definitely keep a eye out for NV4500 regardless if I find one in the next few weeks then I'll prob move on that, but as for now the 465 is my most cost efficient option. Also I saw earlier in this thread about a certian someone using a leftover hole (I think for some kinda electronics?) from the automatic transmission to put the external slave cylinder into that hole and he said he had no issues, I think it was page 2 or 3 I will have to look into that. And thanks for the tip about the new pedals, that's really not a bad price for that whole setup bran new.

Once again thank you all for the swift responses!
 
id keep the auto and dump the money into other doodads unless your planing on it being a "bush only" truck......... just my opinion......with experiance :waytogo:
 
Hahahaha yeah I'd like to, but I don't really want another anemic 4l60e, I know in a few weeks I'll be wishing I went with the auto tranny lol

Also... The pilot bearing, is there a input hole in my crankshaft (even though its an automatic) for a pilot bearing?
 
Russell said:
First things first, your 95 has an IFS front end, which requires a driver's side drop transfer case. The NP208 you picked up will not work in your truck. That said, if your existing transfer case has the correct spline count, it will bolt directly onto the back of the SM465. Since that is the case, you will not need to worry about the speedometer.

You can buy all the clutch pedal stuff new from GM still, and it actually isn't horribly expensive either, under 400 dollars for everything you need brand new. Since you have a 32 spline transmission, I am quite certain it will have a hydraulic clutch on it. That said, it is an external clutch slave and is on the driver's side of the truck, right where your driveshaft will need to be, not to mention that there will probably be a difference in displacement between the two, meaning you'll have to find some way of adapting the older master cylinder to the newer truck's pedals.

I would personally suggest you look into buying an NV3500 or NV4500 5 speed manual transmission that would have come stock in your body style of truck. It will save you a number of headaches and will not loose you your overdrive gear like the SM465 will.

The SM465 really is more of a dump truck transmission anyways. Doesn't drive very nice.
Click to expand...



Don't know if this has been stated yet, but his '95 1500 will NOT have a 32 spline transfer case... It will be 27 spline.
It is, however, a NP241, so you can swap the input shaft and everything attached to it, from a 3/4 ton 241, and then it will be 32 spline.

Also, his 27 spline tcase only has 3 planetary gears surrounding the input. The 32 spline cases have 6.


On another note, my SM465 drives and shifts very well. It has about 80k on it, and I have no problems shifting it as fast as any other manual trans I have driven.
Of course, my opinion is bias, as I would always choose a manual over an automatic in a truck.
 
t0mills said:
Don't know if this has been stated yet, but his '95 1500 will NOT have a 32 spline transfer case... It will be 27 spline.
It is, however, a NP241, so you can swap the input shaft and everything attached to it, from a 3/4 ton 241, and then it will be 32 spline.

Also, his 27 spline tcase only has 3 planetary gears surrounding the input. The 32 spline cases have 6.


On another note, my SM465 drives and shifts very well. It has about 80k on it, and I have no problems shifting it as fast as any other manual trans I have driven.
Of course, my opinion is bias, as I would always choose a manual over an automatic in a truck.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the information. Like I said I haven't gotten a chance to look at the transmission and transfer case super closely, I will get on that later this week. And I agree, I would rather have a manual any day of the week.
 
No problem. And to answer your other question about the pilot bearing... I believe that all SBC cranks have the hole that the pilot bearing uses.

I could be wrong, but i've converted autos to manual before and never had to replace the crank.
 
Yeah well that confirms what my other mechanic friend had previously stated, so its good to hear that some one else is relaying similar information, thanks t0mills
 
Alright everyone some updates so far on my situation

The Transmission is from the 79-87 era (Cast iron top as opposed to aluminum top), 32 splines coming out the back and its bolted to a 208 aluminum transfer case. I have all the parts with the transmission, shifter, boot, ect ect.

So now I need a 241 out of a 3/4 ton to make my life easier, and have already got pricing for a OE 14' flywheel, and 12' pressure plate kit. I also stumbled upon my new pilot bearing that I bought for the 72 which I ended up not needing.

I'm assuming since my transfer case is a 241, just the half ton version, my drive-shafts will just bolt right up to a 3/4 ton 241 xfer case?

Other parts would be I guess a clutch fork? And a computer reprogram, and of course a clutch pedal assembly out of a 88-98 truck. (I believe my local junkard has 2 in inventory)
 
JetForceF22 said:
Alright everyone some updates so far on my situation

The Transmission is from the 79-87 era (Cast iron top as opposed to aluminum top), 32 splines coming out the back and its bolted to a 208 aluminum transfer case. I have all the parts with the transmission, shifter, boot, ect ect.
Click to expand...

That's backwards, the later transmissions with the 32 spline output use an aluminum cover. Not sure on those application years, I know 465's ran through at least 1991 and I've heard they even were in trucks as new as 1993 (yes, the IFS ones).
 
No, he means top cover. The SM465's in the IFS trucks have aluminum top covers. The 1981-1987 half and three quarter tons use a cast iron top cover (shifter tower) and have a 32 spline output. The 1973 - 1980's use a cast iron cover with the 10 spline output shaft.

Martin
 
82355 said:
No, he means top cover. The SM465's in the IFS trucks have aluminum top covers. The 1981-1987 half and three quarter tons use a cast iron top cover (shifter tower) and have a 32 spline output. The 1973 - 1980's use a cast iron cover with the 10 spline output shaft.

Martin
Click to expand...

Wow, thanks Martin you're right!

After some quick research looks like the aluminum top covers were only '88 and up, though I doubt that means only in the IFS trucks.

Still, I thought my 32 spline aluminum top cover 465 was a run of the mill 80's trans. Wouldn't have guessed it was '88 or newer.
 
The aluminum cover versions also have the shifter mounted further rearward similar to the NV4500.

Rene
 
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