the one ton frame on bart is already much stronger than half ton stuff
CK5
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76 CCDRW...Cummins noises
- Thread starter 76zimmer
- Start date
DEMON44
Low-Tech Redneck
just to clarify
My truck is an M1008 that supposedly had it's VE pump 12V put in it during the late 90's, at that point the drivetrain supposedly had 30K on it. It served as a general truck and tow rig for almost 10 years and ~150K, there is no problem with the frame, it's totally stock K30.
I bought the truck in pieces (got it from Steve Rumore @ Avalanche Engineering), it had been taken apart to swap the drivetrain into an H1 and when that fell through it never got put back together.
DEMON44
Low-Tech Redneck
diesel RULES 
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I watch those vids on youtube all the time Luke.
Awesome stuff
Awesome stuff
DEMON44
Low-Tech Redneck
Diesel rules
Just sayin'
Just sayin'
63chevyll
1/2 ton status
i may have missed it somewhere in this thread, but the P pump engine is the most wanted right?
I would say the VE pump motor is the most sought after for a swap because it literally takes one wire to run it and everything is mechanical.
They pretty much make more power as time went on though, so most wanted probably depends on each individual case.
63chevyll
1/2 ton status
cool, thanks
We put a 12v Cummins in a Ram charger at my shop a few years ago and Only ran the 12v Wire. I didnt know what the differences of the P and VE stuff at that time, juts did all the work. Just made 1 truck out of 2 and it was pretty sweet
83ish Ram charger with a 12V D60 D70 with Detroits and 4.88s on 38s with over 8 in of lift. fun truck for sure.
We put a 12v Cummins in a Ram charger at my shop a few years ago and Only ran the 12v Wire. I didnt know what the differences of the P and VE stuff at that time, juts did all the work. Just made 1 truck out of 2 and it was pretty sweet
83ish Ram charger with a 12V D60 D70 with Detroits and 4.88s on 38s with over 8 in of lift. fun truck for sure.
DEMON44
Low-Tech Redneck
A ppump 12v doesn't take any more wires to run than a VE pumped engine. They are both all mechanical engines.
a p7100 pump in theory should last 6x longer than a VE pump. Not that that is really an issue if you run clean fuel. But a ppump has much more adjustibility.
Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk
a p7100 pump in theory should last 6x longer than a VE pump. Not that that is really an issue if you run clean fuel. But a ppump has much more adjustibility.
Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk
Luke, once again thanks for your input....good info about the frame too. It does have some beef to it for sure. Wondering if the CC frames are beefier in height than the standard cabs?
Dave you just need to go buy that freekin cummins and be done with it!!!! 
What he said.
So back to frame strength.
So it is basically accepted that the one ton frame will take the stress of the cummins.
Issams perkins not so much.
So with frame cracks permeating the frame on Issams half ton frame. The one ton frame is not only thicker but higher in section width, but the legs on the C are the same true.
So in my estimation the best way to strengthen the frame to withstand the vibration of a diesel would be to add thickness and spreaders to spread the load. Boxing would do nearly nothing in this case, correct?
Extra crossmembers to tie the frame together would help with twisting more than boxing.
So for the strongest frame with just about any diesel swap would be added thickness to certain areas, adding crossmembers to help with flex and then boxing to help further with that.
Shoot holes through my ideas please. I want to add stiffness to my crew cab frame but don't want to add a thousand lbs of steel
So it is basically accepted that the one ton frame will take the stress of the cummins.
Issams perkins not so much.
So with frame cracks permeating the frame on Issams half ton frame. The one ton frame is not only thicker but higher in section width, but the legs on the C are the same true.
So in my estimation the best way to strengthen the frame to withstand the vibration of a diesel would be to add thickness and spreaders to spread the load. Boxing would do nearly nothing in this case, correct?
Extra crossmembers to tie the frame together would help with twisting more than boxing.
So for the strongest frame with just about any diesel swap would be added thickness to certain areas, adding crossmembers to help with flex and then boxing to help further with that.
Shoot holes through my ideas please. I want to add stiffness to my crew cab frame but don't want to add a thousand lbs of steel
Well you hit a point here so I will give you my experience:
My perkins is a 1967 vintage, so not as smooth nor as light as the cummins.
Mine weighs 1300 lbs dry and the vibration is what killed my frame.
Every attachement point was the start of a crack, the thickness will help the most, lnegth or height will not.
My plan is to reinforce with plates any location I have a braket or engine mount bolted or riveted, that is where all the cracks started.
Any stress crack even a scratch I got from skidding on a rock started a crack and eventually ran from one end to the other.
Also not having some kind of locking nuts didn't help, so crossmembers would losen up from the vibration and start ovaling the holes and eventually either start a crack or break the bolts and drop.
I will be building my frame and my whole truck based on these experiences, I am thinking fish plates anywhere I have something bolted, and I will be doing some X members for stiffening the frame, but that is for another reason, I want the suspension to do the flexing not the frame.
No boxing the frame for me as I don't believe I will benefit from it.
My perkins is a 1967 vintage, so not as smooth nor as light as the cummins.
Mine weighs 1300 lbs dry and the vibration is what killed my frame.
Every attachement point was the start of a crack, the thickness will help the most, lnegth or height will not.
My plan is to reinforce with plates any location I have a braket or engine mount bolted or riveted, that is where all the cracks started.
Any stress crack even a scratch I got from skidding on a rock started a crack and eventually ran from one end to the other.
Also not having some kind of locking nuts didn't help, so crossmembers would losen up from the vibration and start ovaling the holes and eventually either start a crack or break the bolts and drop.
I will be building my frame and my whole truck based on these experiences, I am thinking fish plates anywhere I have something bolted, and I will be doing some X members for stiffening the frame, but that is for another reason, I want the suspension to do the flexing not the frame.
No boxing the frame for me as I don't believe I will benefit from it.
Dave you just need to go buy that freekin cummins and be done with it!!!!
Right Adam, not sure if you caught it but, IF I do a cummins it would have to be substantially more output than the BBC, and of course I would have to have the money to buy it first....I got a plan for this thing for 2012 through summer, but not for the modifications/restoration phase yet....lets just hint at Made in USA comes to mind.
Dmax, Allison, dually AAM rear end. not that I dont like the cummins, its just its been done so many times its kinda old hat now, and a DMAX would be great for power and mileage
I don't think with a C30 frame I would worry about the frame at all. The suspension carrying crossmember is a massive piece that triangulates back into the rails with fairly large diameter bars to the front. The rails themselves are larger than the K30's from about the front cab mount forward to where the crossmember bolts in. They could be larger in that area because they did not need additional clearance for leaf spring eye's and shackles. I also believe there was a heavy chassis package for the C30's that was not available on the K30's, I think it put the overall GVW at 13,000-13,500. The 4x4's were never rated above 10,000-11,000 if I remember correctly. I notice almost no difference in the way my truck handles with the Cummins, it has a little more cornering sway which could easily be corrected, but otherwise is unnoticable. If you go cummins Use the 2nd or 3rd Gen Dodge Cummins motor mounts to reduce vibration. Tie the frame mount portion of your motor mount into the crossmember and frame rail both and I don't think you will ever have any issues. I know there is a lot of flap out there about the weight of these motor, but a guy over at 4btswaps weighed a Cummins side by side with a 454, both dressed as they would sit in the truck there was 300 pound difference. I have the 3rd gen mounts and only notice vibes when it is starting cold in the 30 degree range or colder, otherwise very smooth.
JLT
JLT
Dave, do a cummins up! Doesn't matter if it is a P pump or not, either or will blow that 454 and poor shifting TH400 out of the water!
Speaking from hours of research here, the duramax swap is not an easy one electrically speaking. It can most definitely be done, but there is a lot to consider. The Cummins is essentially a 1 wire hookup to make it run, tough to beat that!
As mentioned above, forget messing around with putting a Chevy transmission behind the Cummins. Put in a Dodge O/D automatic with lockup and modify your driveshafts / trans crossmember to match.
Speaking from hours of research here, the duramax swap is not an easy one electrically speaking. It can most definitely be done, but there is a lot to consider. The Cummins is essentially a 1 wire hookup to make it run, tough to beat that!
As mentioned above, forget messing around with putting a Chevy transmission behind the Cummins. Put in a Dodge O/D automatic with lockup and modify your driveshafts / trans crossmember to match.
