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'81 K5, "BlaZeus"- How to NOT build the ultimate budget K5; 3 & 4 link build

ryoken said:
it looks like you already smoothed it with the grinder in that pic at the bottom of the tube...... a 12 lb spool and some scrap practice for a couple nights might be beneficial...
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Yeah I did cuz that's what y'all said I should start doing...
12lb spool? Scrap practice? I am refraining from defending myself, but I'll just say that comments like this are not helpful, encouraging, or uplifting in any way. Yes, I know, I am not an expert welder by any means, and this has been brought up many times before but if everyone waited until they were perfect at something before they did it, nothing would ever get done in the world...So I am not sure what you're implying, because I'm sorry but a"12lb spool and scrap practice for a couple nights" is not going to magically make me weld up to your standards. It takes years and years of practice and experience and I am still learning and trying to get better as I go. No hard feelings just thought I had made it clear by now that just because my welds are not perfect that this is not going to stop me from continuing to weld and try to get better with each bead I lay down. Now if you have tips and tricks for laying down vertical welds and welding upside down then those are more than appreciated! Cuz I can use all the help I can get....as clearly seen....lol.
 
BlaZeus said:
Yeah I did cuz that's what y'all said I should start doing...
12lb spool? Scrap practice? I am refraining from defending myself, but I'll just say that comments like this are not helpful, encouraging, or uplifting in any way. Yes, I know, I am not an expert welder by any means, and this has been brought up many times before but if everyone waited until they were perfect at something before they did it, nothing would ever get done in the world...So I am not sure what you're implying, because I'm sorry but a"12lb spool and scrap practice for a couple nights" is not going to magically make me weld up to your standards. It takes years and years of practice and experience and I am still learning and trying to get better as I go. No hard feelings just thought I had made it clear by now that just because my welds are not perfect that this is not going to stop me from continuing to weld and try to get better with each bead I lay down. Now if you have tips and tricks for laying down vertical welds and welding upside down then those are more than appreciated! Cuz I can use all the help I can get....as clearly seen....lol.
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You're overthinking this. As you said, good welding takes a gob of practice. Practice is your friend. If you're having difficulty laying down a consistent bead, structural tubing is *NOT* where you want to do your practicing. Because it's not the easiest thing to weld, and having one of those welds fail is much more of an issue than wasting some scraps or the time it takes to practice.

It's not a personal attack, nor should it be discouraging. It's an encouragement to put some extra effort into these welds because they are extra important. Even for non safety-of-life issues, it's downright annoying to put in the time to perfectly fit a tube and then hafta scrap it out because of a botched weld. :doah:


P.S. I have some welds that are uglier than yours; I consider them to be tuition, a way of becoming a better welder.

Keep up the good work, you're learning your way to success! :waytogo:
 
Actually I didn't find Pauls comment offensive at all.

Very much the opposite.

If you practice on scrap and run an entire spool of wire through the gun, while playing with adjustments on the welder, to see what different settings change. You will indeed learn a lot and become a better welder.

A roll cage IMO is the worst thing to practice on to learn how to weld.

I made a welding cart, to hold my welder, as my first project.
 
BlaZeus said:
Yeah I did cuz that's what y'all said I should start doing...
12lb spool? Scrap practice? I am refraining from defending myself, but I'll just say that comments like this are not helpful, encouraging, or uplifting in any way. Yes, I know, I am not an expert welder by any means, and this has been brought up many times before but if everyone waited until they were perfect at something before they did it, nothing would ever get done in the world...So I am not sure what you're implying, because I'm sorry but a"12lb spool and scrap practice for a couple nights" is not going to magically make me weld up to your standards. It takes years and years of practice and experience and I am still learning and trying to get better as I go. No hard feelings just thought I had made it clear by now that just because my welds are not perfect that this is not going to stop me from continuing to weld and try to get better with each bead I lay down. Now if you have tips and tricks for laying down vertical welds and welding upside down then those are more than appreciated! Cuz I can use all the help I can get....as clearly seen....lol.
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This isn't Pirate4x4, but that doesn't mean that you won't get some "tough love" around here.

You're young and not a very experienced welder, but you're charging full-steam ahead into a full-scale tube frame project. It's NO joke that if your welds are poor (or your design is not structurally valid) you could end up folding your truck in half, and potentially killing passengers in the back seat area. THAT'S the point that people are trying to make here....

It's not always going to be pleasant to hear negative feedback, but you ARE getting valuable input from the guys here.


-G
 
Deuling said:
Actually I didn't find Pauls comment offensive at all.

Very much the opposite.

If you practice on scrap and run an entire spool of wire through the gun, while playing with adjustments on the welder, to see what different settings change. You will indeed learn a lot and become a better welder.

A roll cage IMO is the worst thing to practice on to learn how to weld.

I made a welding cart, to hold my welder, as my first project.
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I know it wasn't meant to be offensive, that's why I wasn't trying to defend my mediocre skills. I have spent lots of time with with this welder and tinkering with the settings.
This is not the first thing I have ever welded. I have welded bumpers for my previous trucks and also for some of my friends trucks and random stuff over the past 3 years or so. This is my first cage that I have welded. The only struggle I really have is welding up side down and sometimes vertical welding, so that's why I need tips and tricks on how to get better!! Lol
 
yeah, I had no intention of butt-hurting you.. it was a gentle reminder about the importance of honing skills.. no one get's it better than me how hard that is when ya wanna get something done, but a recent school guy like you should understand the importance of practice.. just some food for thought...

props to you for getting after it tho.... not sure how your tool selection is but you must managing ok for a younger guy and this kinda metal work... I'm spoiled now with my sick bandsaw, lol...
 
This has been a interesting thread to read through. I'm not a big fan of the desert pre-runner style stuff (just not my style), but I can appreciate people building new things. And at the beginning this was looking pretty sketch, but with some slight pushing (:haha:) it looks like you are starting to get on the right track. I will tell you what my first boss told me right when I graduated from Accounting school and got my first job at a CPA firm. He said, "Son, all this means is now you paid a lot of money for a piece of paper, and you still don't know shit." So don't think that just cause you got a degree in something that is more than just a Communications degree that you somehow know more than everybody else. But from reading through this build at least you could man up and recognize you did/said something wrong. Good on ya for that

As far as fabrication goes, for guys like us who don't do this as a full time job, I don't think you will ever get to the point where the fab or even every weld will be perfect. All of us have gone through the learning stages of this stuff. I truly believe a good thought out designed cage with good bracings can make up for maybe a few welds here and there that may not be perfect. Take my cage for example (couple random pics posted below). I am not a perfect welder, nor are all of my bends/cuts perfect, but overall I feel like my cage would work well in a rollover to make sure me and whoever is inside can walk away, simply cause the overall design has pretty good bracing (I could always add more and probably will as time goes on). And I think the brotherhood would probably agree cause when I posted a bunch of pics of my cage there wasn't any lashback at it (usually a good sign that you are doing it acceptable, hahaha). So keep that in mind when you do are working on this. Keep at it as you will have something a heck of a lot cooler than the mall crawler down the road once you are done. :thumb:





 
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Kay86K5 said:
This has been a interesting thread to read though. I'm not a big fan of the desert pre-runner style stuff (just not my style), but I can appreciate people building new things. And at the beginning this was looking pretty sketch, but with some slight pushing (:haha:) it looks like you are starting to get on the right track. I will tell you what my first boss told me right when I graduated from Accounting school and got my first job at a CPA firm. He said, "Son, all this means is now you paid a lot of money for a piece of paper, and you still don't know shit." So don't think that just cause you got a degree in something that is more than just a Communications degree that you somehow know more than everybody else. But from reading through this build at least you could man up and recognize you did/said something wrong. Good on ya for that

As far as fabrication goes, for guys like us who don't do this as a full time job, I don't think you will ever get to the point where the fab or even every weld will be perfect. All of us have gone through the learning stages of this stuff. I truly believe a good thought out designed cage with good bracings can make up for maybe a few welds here and there that may not be perfect. Take my cage for example (couple random pics posted below). I am not a perfect welder, nor are all of my bends/cuts perfect, but overall I feel like my cage would work well in a rollover to make sure me and whoever is inside can walk away, simply cause the overall design has pretty good bracing (I could always add more and probably will as time goes on). And I think the brotherhood would probably agree cause when I posted a bunch of pics of my cage there wasn't any lashback at it (usually a good sign that you are doing it acceptable, hahaha). So keep that in mind when you do are working on this. Keep at it as you will have something a heck of a lot cooler than the mall crawler down the road once you are done. :thumb:





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Haha this is awesome Thanks for this!
1. Badass rig
2. Do you have any pics of the area of where the cage goes down at the wheel well? Does it go through to your frame? Mounted on top of wheel well?
3. No lash back for using 1"(?) tubing for gusseting? Dang. I am gonna start doing that now! So much easier to cut notch and weld!!
 
Seriously man you should try the scrap peices and welding.

It's a Zen moment for me.

When I was learning how to weld my welds were alright. Then one night while practicing something clicked. My welds got way better.

It's something everyone who has learned how to weld has had happen.

The advice Ryoken gave is the same advice given a hundred times on this board.

Get some scrap and practice.

Shoot I know guys who run welds so nice they should be on art display. Those guys practice on scrap
 
BlaZeus said:
Haha this is awesome Thanks for this!
1. Badass rig
2. Do you have any pics of the area of where the cage goes down at the wheel well? Does it go through to your frame? Mounted on top of wheel well?
3. No lash back for using 1"(?) tubing for gusseting? Dang. I am gonna start doing that now! So much easier to cut notch and weld!!
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1. Thanks :D
2. I have a bunch of pics in my build thread starting on this page here:
https://ck5.com/forums/threads/my-86-k5-build.302527/page-23
My cage is attached to the fame at 6 points. There are tubes that attach to the wheel wells, but they are just bolted there just for added measure.
3. There is nothing wrong with using a smaller diam tube for bracing. As long as you get the same thickness tube. Main tube on mine is 2" .120 wall and bracing is 1" .120 wall, that way when you weld them together you can make sure to have even penetration (at least that is what I read :)).
 
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ryoken said:
yeah, I had no intention of butt-hurting you.. it was a gentle reminder about the importance of honing skills.. no one get's it better than me how hard that is when ya wanna get something done, but a recent school guy like you should understand the importance of practice.. just some food for thought...

props to you for getting after it tho.... not sure how your tool selection is but you must managing ok for a younger guy and this kinda metal work... I'm spoiled now with my sick bandsaw, lol...
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Haha yeah I know no worries! It's just been stated many times before that's all.
Yeah just an angle grander with cut off wheels. I got a sweet metal cutting saw with a carbide tipped blade for Christmas/graduation from my uncle. He's the one who first taught me how to weld and metal fab. He's not a pro. Just a hobbyist. But man, is that thing sweet. So much better than an abrasive chop saw! If anyone is thinking about getting one, do it!!! And a Lincoln 140 welder hooked up to 240 cuz my current garage circuit was tripping a breaker everytime I welded for more than 2 seconds.
 
yeah, the evolve style metal cutting saws are nice.. another thread about those going currently.. I'd still like to pick one up for more mobile stuff at some point......... plus the prices have come way down too... but he!!, I built my whole K5 with a $175 rigid sparkfest.. :haha:

keep after it... another one to keep in the back of your cranium too... build threads aren't just to come in and say "I did x. y, z, here's a picfest.. " it's a GREAT place to bounce your idea's off of others... got an idea that ya think might be good or neat, drop it in here... it happens all the time... I've gotten ton's of great suggestions for my rig's in my novels from the crew here to make my ideas that much better...

it's amazing sometimes what a different perspective can open up in your own thought process..... :deal:
 
oh, and didn't mean to flog a dead horse.. :popcorn:

I'm often guilty of kinda skimming around threads and not reading all the replies... :whistle: :haha:
 
Dude, I bring the suck a lot of times welding.. some days are worse than others. In my experience I have found that its mostly consistency, If I know I have to weld something that is absolutely critical Ill grab some scrap preferably the same thickness of the actual item needing welding, and Ill practice on that. Ill also watch videos online about how to setup the machine and usually that helps also because its someone explaining how and why. If I see that I cannot lay down a decent bead, Ill move on to something else for the night. Your mind has to be right or else you are going to get bad results. I grind a lot of stuff and reweld if I dont think its up to snuff.. some of this stuff is very large and can take the heat many times, cage tube is not..

We harp on you because we want this to be bad ass too..
If you read on my thread, I am trying to show you what I deal with on a day to day basis, I know my welds are strong and consistent most of the time and mainly when I am in a familiar position. If it moves.. that goes out the window so I end up reworking some stuff.. displayed in the thread.
Guys like Ryoken are very good at their craft because they do some of this more than us desk jockeys.. Look at his bodywork stuff.. crazy.. guess who I am calling when I start that... Duh..
 
See, you will notice that some of Deuling's bracing tubes are a smaller diameter as well...its just fine. In fact, you would probably be well for the wise to take a good hard look at Deuling's cage since he built his for more high speed usage too, same as what you are going for. Mine is a trail/rock crawler that doesn't ever see high speed. So mine isn't built to withstand higher impacts that yours could see
 
I just ran across this thread. One of the problems I see is not having a overall plan....This kinda projects need a lot of planning to make everything work together. You know the whole "Every action has a reaction equal or greater" thing. This especially applies to tube/cage/suspension.
From what I can see, you really need to buy a tube bender and a notcher.....Yes you can do tube work without a bender, but with one you won't have to make as many compromises on where tubes will have to go.
 
Kay86K5 said:
See, you will notice that some of Deuling's bracing tubes are a smaller diameter as well...its just fine. In fact, you would probably be well for the wise to take a good hard look at Deuling's cage since he built his for more high speed usage too, same as what you are going for. Mine is a trail/rock crawler that doesn't ever see high speed. So mine isn't built to withstand higher impacts that yours could see
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That's probably the worst picture to show of my cage that is meant for go fast.

Its the one place I sacrificed looks for engineering and made a dead node on top.

But I did add gussets on the top side to tie them in.
 
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