Gov setup sounds like it is from something with tall ass gears...
CK5
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Automatic transmissions suck.
- Thread starter SpeedlabDan
- Start date
That's kinda why I didn't want to adjust the mod too much I think I'm gonna try the tci gov reprogram in a couple weeks when I get mack from the event
Either that or it was behind a diesel--they are set up to upshift much earlier than a gas powered rig...
If its just not shifting at the desired speed you like,but not slipping or doing anything else unusual,I would say it just needs to have the govenor tweaked and the modulator adjusted,after making sure the vacuum source to it is good ..the 4:88 gears will make it upshift much sooner ,if the transmission govenor was set up for a vehicle with 3:08's or highway gears..
I'm not really thrilled about automatics either,but I've owned only 2 GM trucks with manual transmissions (Well,three if you count the '56 I had with a three on the tree)--the manuals suck too in my opinion,the SM465's have a gear spread that's too wide between second and third,and had issues with synchros and popping out of third,caused by broken snap rings ,they are more suited for a C60 dump truck than a daily driver,their best feature is the granny low first gear (non synchro though--boo-hiss!)..and they are rugged ,but shift like a dump truck..
--the three speeds were kind of weak and not geared all that great..
I have no experience with the newer NV series transmissions,but I suspect they are not all that much better,they just have overdrive..
I'll admit plowing is much easier with an automatic,and clutches wear out fairly quick if used to plow driveways,replacing a clutch in a 4x4 is never fun,but neither is having an automatic that suddenly decides its not going to propel the vehicle without warning,and the fragile cooler lines can fail, and fry one in a matter of two minutes..
After seeing the staggering amount of tiny springs,ball bearings,one way sprags,and clutch plates half the size or less than a typical manual clutch is inside an automatic,I am amazed any automatic holds up more than a few thousand miles--look at the size of the transmission and its guts,compared to the size and weight of the vehicle it has to propel,plus any cargo or trailer--its a miracle they work at all ,or last as long as they do..I think aliens designed them!..
It seems that most "modern" automatics do not hold up as long as the old non-overdrive ones in all makes of cars and trucks nowadays..
I don't know why one manufacturer cant seem to make a rugged "bullet proof" automatic --other than an Allison,I cant think of any that fit that bill..
7 out of ten used truck ads have "blown transmission" or "tranny is slipping"--"no reverse" in the text when I go looking for a better truck.."Frame rot" is #1...or they have 300,000 miles and they'll fall apart a week after you buy it and register it..
If its just not shifting at the desired speed you like,but not slipping or doing anything else unusual,I would say it just needs to have the govenor tweaked and the modulator adjusted,after making sure the vacuum source to it is good ..the 4:88 gears will make it upshift much sooner ,if the transmission govenor was set up for a vehicle with 3:08's or highway gears..
I'm not really thrilled about automatics either,but I've owned only 2 GM trucks with manual transmissions (Well,three if you count the '56 I had with a three on the tree)--the manuals suck too in my opinion,the SM465's have a gear spread that's too wide between second and third,and had issues with synchros and popping out of third,caused by broken snap rings ,they are more suited for a C60 dump truck than a daily driver,their best feature is the granny low first gear (non synchro though--boo-hiss!)..and they are rugged ,but shift like a dump truck..
--the three speeds were kind of weak and not geared all that great..
I have no experience with the newer NV series transmissions,but I suspect they are not all that much better,they just have overdrive..
I'll admit plowing is much easier with an automatic,and clutches wear out fairly quick if used to plow driveways,replacing a clutch in a 4x4 is never fun,but neither is having an automatic that suddenly decides its not going to propel the vehicle without warning,and the fragile cooler lines can fail, and fry one in a matter of two minutes..
After seeing the staggering amount of tiny springs,ball bearings,one way sprags,and clutch plates half the size or less than a typical manual clutch is inside an automatic,I am amazed any automatic holds up more than a few thousand miles--look at the size of the transmission and its guts,compared to the size and weight of the vehicle it has to propel,plus any cargo or trailer--its a miracle they work at all ,or last as long as they do..I think aliens designed them!..
It seems that most "modern" automatics do not hold up as long as the old non-overdrive ones in all makes of cars and trucks nowadays..
I don't know why one manufacturer cant seem to make a rugged "bullet proof" automatic --other than an Allison,I cant think of any that fit that bill..
7 out of ten used truck ads have "blown transmission" or "tranny is slipping"--"no reverse" in the text when I go looking for a better truck.."Frame rot" is #1...or they have 300,000 miles and they'll fall apart a week after you buy it and register it..
I agree with longitivity aspect of modern transmission that's why the only auto I would put in my crew is an Ally but it's proving to be expensive. I guess I'll be tinkering with this th350 for now
You can get a weight kit to redo the governor or you can take a grinder to what you got now...
I was just suggesting to play with the modulator first, as it will easily and quickly do something. I know first hand what happens when it doesn't have any vacuum! 
But it sounds like you are on the right track of going to the governor now .
But it sounds like you are on the right track of going to the governor now .
Whatever you do, don't call @Babaganoosh 's guy
Its been a while but I think there is 2 springs in the governor and weights on either side of the springs and the kits give you multiple options of springs and weights. You can remove one of the 2 springs and try that also. I know I did that once and it was perfect for what I wanted. That was in an old mud dragger truck though so I wanted really high shift points.
CGT80
1/2 ton status
My 79 C20 has a built TH400 and gearvendors overdrive. 4.10 gears and 33" rear tires, also a torque converter meant for an Alison transmission for towing/RV use. I shift with my feet and control the shift points of the th400 with the gas pedal.
The more I push the gas pedal, the later the shift, but I can pretty much pick an rpm and get it to shift there from 1st or 2nd. I use my left foot to manually shift the gearvendors. 70-75 on the freeway is 2400 rpm or so. At 65 mph or less, I can nail the throttle and it will downshift to 2nd over and take off like a raped ape (built 406 sbc). Above 65 and I have to click out of OD or shift manually to second. The kickdown setup (lokar), vacuum modulator, shift kit, etc. are set great for shift points and adapting to user input or driving style. The shift kit is softer than I like, but the one before was set very harsh and that trans didn't live. The previous trans also toasted 2nd gear with towing, so now it has clutches and steels from a 4l80e for second gear. I did have the modulator or govenor tweaked a bit to get it to shift where I wanted (more sensitive) and I have the kickdown cable adjusted so it activates at half throttle or so. Two soon and it revs to the moon with no power and too late and it won't downshift and get moving, it was touchy to get right.
Speaking of Th 400 slush boxes:
I saw the beginnings of a 400 that will go in a truck that just took 3rd place in the baja 1000, according to my uncle who is building it. It has an aftermarket sfi case that looks like jewelry. It will cost roughly 3-4 times the price of what is in my truck, but the case for my trans is an ugly looking thing that we were lucky to find for a decent price as cores seem to be getting harder to get. Other race transmissions he has built, have an sfi bellhousing retrofitted to them. I take my plasma cutter in so they can cut and grind the old case to prep it.
My uncle says he can build a 700R4 without a lock up converter that will hold up in his lowered C30 dually. He rarely tows with it though.
With transmissions, as with engines, the builder and the tricks, upgrades, and details they put into it, make a world of difference. I have been through both and had successes and failures with builders.
The drive home from working next to Hollywood yesterday, was 3 hours and 85 miles. The traffic started moving "normally" around two hours in (7pm), otherwise it would have been worse. There is no way in hell, I would want to drive a manual around here...........been there, done that. Miles mean nothing in SoCal as drive that takes an hour with no traffic and driving at or a little above the speed limit can turn into a 2-5 hour drive depending on time of day and accidents. I rode part way with my brother, in his work truck, a new Dodge 3500 utility truck with a cummins and exhaust brake. The exhaust brake and auto trans makes stop and go traffic much better. The high compression of the engine in my C20, trans setup, and gearing keep me from having to use my brakes all the time. Newer gas vehicles really suck as they just coast along with no engine braking when you want it.
The manual trans is the way to go for my VW dune buggy. If you hit traffic in the desert, all the more reason to play with the gears. That hydraulic clutch takes a ton of leg force but unfortunately I haven't used it enough to really feel it. A manual on the street just makes my jacked up back even worse, even thought it can be fun in the right conditions.
The more I push the gas pedal, the later the shift, but I can pretty much pick an rpm and get it to shift there from 1st or 2nd. I use my left foot to manually shift the gearvendors. 70-75 on the freeway is 2400 rpm or so. At 65 mph or less, I can nail the throttle and it will downshift to 2nd over and take off like a raped ape (built 406 sbc). Above 65 and I have to click out of OD or shift manually to second. The kickdown setup (lokar), vacuum modulator, shift kit, etc. are set great for shift points and adapting to user input or driving style. The shift kit is softer than I like, but the one before was set very harsh and that trans didn't live. The previous trans also toasted 2nd gear with towing, so now it has clutches and steels from a 4l80e for second gear. I did have the modulator or govenor tweaked a bit to get it to shift where I wanted (more sensitive) and I have the kickdown cable adjusted so it activates at half throttle or so. Two soon and it revs to the moon with no power and too late and it won't downshift and get moving, it was touchy to get right.
Speaking of Th 400 slush boxes:
I saw the beginnings of a 400 that will go in a truck that just took 3rd place in the baja 1000, according to my uncle who is building it. It has an aftermarket sfi case that looks like jewelry. It will cost roughly 3-4 times the price of what is in my truck, but the case for my trans is an ugly looking thing that we were lucky to find for a decent price as cores seem to be getting harder to get. Other race transmissions he has built, have an sfi bellhousing retrofitted to them. I take my plasma cutter in so they can cut and grind the old case to prep it.
My uncle says he can build a 700R4 without a lock up converter that will hold up in his lowered C30 dually. He rarely tows with it though.
With transmissions, as with engines, the builder and the tricks, upgrades, and details they put into it, make a world of difference. I have been through both and had successes and failures with builders.
The drive home from working next to Hollywood yesterday, was 3 hours and 85 miles. The traffic started moving "normally" around two hours in (7pm), otherwise it would have been worse. There is no way in hell, I would want to drive a manual around here...........been there, done that. Miles mean nothing in SoCal as drive that takes an hour with no traffic and driving at or a little above the speed limit can turn into a 2-5 hour drive depending on time of day and accidents. I rode part way with my brother, in his work truck, a new Dodge 3500 utility truck with a cummins and exhaust brake. The exhaust brake and auto trans makes stop and go traffic much better. The high compression of the engine in my C20, trans setup, and gearing keep me from having to use my brakes all the time. Newer gas vehicles really suck as they just coast along with no engine braking when you want it.
The manual trans is the way to go for my VW dune buggy. If you hit traffic in the desert, all the more reason to play with the gears. That hydraulic clutch takes a ton of leg force but unfortunately I haven't used it enough to really feel it. A manual on the street just makes my jacked up back even worse, even thought it can be fun in the right conditions.
I love those Reid racing transmissions and I have seen some of the high dollar th400 that are Goin in the trophy trucks and they truly are works of art.
Obviously I picked an auto but more bc it was already there and the wife won't drive a stick. I'm sure these trans can be tuned I'm just annoyed with the fact that I just had it built and nothing works properly.
That setup you are running sounds interesting though
Cable controlled modulator maybe ?...that is the only thing I can think of ..some military diesels had those and aftermarket ones are used on vehicles with a supercharged engine..
My m1009 has the 6.2 and turbo 400.
It uses an electrical switch on the gas pedal for kick down.
Normal shifting besides the governor, is via a vacuum modulator on the trans which gets a modified vacuum signal from a throttle mounted valve, which gets vacuum from a pump mounted on the engine block.
I looked into those cable operated modulators.
They make them.
But the factory setup works fine as long as the components are in good shape.
Yeah--as long as the vacuum pump works,which seems to be a losing battle on my 6.2/TH400 in my '82 K2500...on the third one now (all of them used)..but the modified govenor Greg Ducato set up for it,and an additional spring behind the modulator valve, makes it upshift at tolerable speeds even when the pumps were not producing proper vacuum..
Though the factory setup does work fine if all the components are working right--they all are very expensive to replace when they fail--the vacuum pumps are well over $100,so is the VRV valve on the injector pump that controls the vacuum,if you can even find one new now..
A cable operated modulator isn't cheap at $125 either,but it eliminates all the other problematic devices..
Though the factory setup does work fine if all the components are working right--they all are very expensive to replace when they fail--the vacuum pumps are well over $100,so is the VRV valve on the injector pump that controls the vacuum,if you can even find one new now..
A cable operated modulator isn't cheap at $125 either,but it eliminates all the other problematic devices..
That's why i bought this vacuum pod to swap onto my pump when it finally dies.
Shhh.. it's for a ford.
But they are cheap and plentiful and appears to bolt right on.
Haven't had to swap it yet.
The only thing the vacuum pump on the 80's diesel military does is provide vacuum for the transmission.
Heater doors are cables.
The vacuum pump shaft also drives the oil pump so you can't just remove it.
Later models have a simple oil pump drive without the vacuum pod.
Sure is a rube goldberg setup to provide the trans with a signal.
Tempting to go all cable.
At least the valve on the throttle is fairly cheap and easy to get.
Mine was worn out.
Made it shift high.
Vacuum pump put out a steady 21 hg at idle.
Adjustments to modulator on trans didn't make much diff.
So it had to be the valve on the throttle.
Turns out, it was.
You can get em on ebay, 30 bucks.
Here is the (ford) vacuum pod i got.
Someday i will bolt it on and see if it works.
Cheaper than a GM vacuum pump and easier to find.
Edit: that is a vacuum diaphragm for a Ford Powerstroke.
Got it on ebay for 59 bucks.
No idea if it will work.
Bolt pattern is the same.
Appears it will fit the gm vaccum pump for 6.2.
That extra black line just routes the outlet through a silencer, otherwise it operates exactly like the gm diaphragm.
A cam in the shaft housing just pushes that rod in and spring pressure returns it.
But it is a gamble.
There are crazy guys asking 300 bucks for a "new" 6.2 vac pump.
I figure to adapt this cheap diaphragm to what i got when the old one dies, or go to something else.
You only need a small volume of steady vacuum from the source.
That vrv valve on throttle and modulator on trans does all the work.
Just need steady vac supply..
Even considered an electric vac pump from an economy car, kind they use to boost brakes.
Those cable op modulators are quite expensive.
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I assumed he had some sort of aftermarket setup given his unique description 
Not sure I trust the electronic switch any more than my cable kick. As of right now I'm probably gonna ditch my column shift for an art carr gated shifter.
Not sure I trust the electronic switch any more than my cable kick. As of right now I'm probably gonna ditch my column shift for an art carr gated shifter.
I've read online that the Ford pods fit and work,on some the hose barbs aren't pointing in the same spot but that is easily worked around..
I saw a few used ones at the salvage yard my last trip there on 7.3's ,but they didn't want to strip any parts, since they sell complete engines ready to drop in faster and for more $$$...
I thought about going electric pump too,but they may not last long and aren't all that inexpensive either--and you still have the VRV valve ,which in my opinion should have been made of stainless steel or even pot metal,not crap plastic--then have to pay over 100 bucks for one if a new one exists--GM no longer makes them far as I know,and few if any aftermarket ones are available cheap..
I rarely see any 6.2's in salvage yards and most wont let you "break up" an injector pump..
--your comment about it being a Rube Goldberg sort of setup is something I agree with..it is a rather complicated system consisting of some costly parts ..
I happen to have a blown up '87 6.2 out of a C-30 ramp truck that had a SM465 so it has the vacuum pump delete plug that drives the distributor..crank snapped in half on the engine,I scoffed it for spare parts before the owner scrapped it..had planned to find a crank for it and assemble it,keep it for a spare,it ran great right up until it when "KUH"..but it has sat outside under a tarp with no oil pan a long time--ain't worth trying to make it run now..
This is the cable operated modulator I mentioned--back when I looked it up a few years ago,it was $125,not sure if it has increased since..and I forget if they supplied the cable with it or if it was a separate item..
I've read online that the Ford pods fit and work,on some the hose barbs aren't pointing in the same spot but that is easily worked around..
I saw a few used ones at the salvage yard my last trip there on 7.3's ,but they didn't want to strip any parts, since they sell complete engines ready to drop in faster and for more $$$...
I thought about going electric pump too,but they may not last long and aren't all that inexpensive either--and you still have the VRV valve ,which in my opinion should have been made of stainless steel or even pot metal,not crap plastic--then have to pay over 100 bucks for one if a new one exists--GM no longer makes them far as I know,and few if any aftermarket ones are available cheap..
I rarely see any 6.2's in salvage yards and most wont let you "break up" an injector pump..
--your comment about it being a Rube Goldberg sort of setup is something I agree with..it is a rather complicated system consisting of some costly parts ..
I happen to have a blown up '87 6.2 out of a C-30 ramp truck that had a SM465 so it has the vacuum pump delete plug that drives the distributor..crank snapped in half on the engine,I scoffed it for spare parts before the owner scrapped it..had planned to find a crank for it and assemble it,keep it for a spare,it ran great right up until it when "KUH"..but it has sat outside under a tarp with no oil pan a long time--ain't worth trying to make it run now..
This is the cable operated modulator I mentioned--back when I looked it up a few years ago,it was $125,not sure if it has increased since..and I forget if they supplied the cable with it or if it was a separate item..
View attachment 265337
Here you go;
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/192003077463
There are a few brand new AC Delco vrv valves.
Also a factory vacuum pod but of course, it is probably 30 years old.
That is why i went with the Powerstroke replacement.
Rubber is much fresher.
.. that sounds a bit odd.
Yeah,using the OEM AC one would be like trusting a 30 year old condom...
The vrv valve, on the other hand, has almost nothing inside to suffer age damage.
I tore the old one appart.
Appears the plastic wears on the plastic.. yeah, way to go GM.
That listing says it's for a 700r but also says they were military surplus.
Both cannot be true since CUCV's never came with 700r.
Either way, same part.
It'll work on an m1009 equipped with a 400.
Made a ridiculous improvement to my shifting.
My only concern about the cable conversion would be rough, or mistimed shifting.
They seem to be geared towards the race crowd.
Then again, i down shift manually on steep grades, and keep it in 1st gear while wheeling.
I'll look again but the last time i did, a complete cable modulator setup for the 400 was closer to $300 and you'd need to adapt it to the diesel throttle.
Not a biggie.
I tore the old one appart.
Appears the plastic wears on the plastic.. yeah, way to go GM.
That listing says it's for a 700r but also says they were military surplus.
Both cannot be true since CUCV's never came with 700r.
Either way, same part.
It'll work on an m1009 equipped with a 400.
Made a ridiculous improvement to my shifting.
My only concern about the cable conversion would be rough, or mistimed shifting.
They seem to be geared towards the race crowd.
Then again, i down shift manually on steep grades, and keep it in 1st gear while wheeling.
I'll look again but the last time i did, a complete cable modulator setup for the 400 was closer to $300 and you'd need to adapt it to the diesel throttle.
Not a biggie.
