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'72 K5 - BYT - 1 ton swap

Overview Gallery Discussion
I had to take the front axle apart again. I messed up when installing the front locker. Turns out it's a zip locker after all btw. :dunno:

I finally got the air lines hooked up so that I could test for leaks, and it definitely leaked. Pulled the diff cover off and the air line was ripped off.

20230128_170457.jpg

The seal ring had spun around and that ripped the air line. As you can see in the image below, the seal ring was able to contact the bearing cage, so when the cage spun, it pulled the seal ring around with it.

20230128_170510.jpg

Luckily there is no real damage to the bearing cage. The seal ring is probably fine too once I braze on a new line, but since I had to order parts anyway, I ordered a new seal ring to go with it.

The part I was missing is called a "master shim". Since I got the locker used, I didn't know it was missing. It fits in between the bearing race and the seal ring and keeps the bearing from contacting the ring.

Honestly, it seems like a dumb design to me. If the spacer is required to be there, why not just make the seal ring take up the same space and avoid the extra piece?
Maybe once I get it and go to install it, it'll become more evident why it needs to be two pieces.
 
ashman said:
I had to take the front axle apart again. I messed up when installing the front locker. Turns out it's a zip locker after all btw. :dunno:

I finally got the air lines hooked up so that I could test for leaks, and it definitely leaked. Pulled the diff cover off and the air line was ripped off.

View attachment 437460

The seal ring had spun around and that ripped the air line. As you can see in the image below, the seal ring was able to contact the bearing cage, so when the cage spun, it pulled the seal ring around with it.

View attachment 437459

Luckily there is no real damage to the bearing cage. The seal ring is probably fine too once I braze on a new line, but since I had to order parts anyway, I ordered a new seal ring to go with it.

The part I was missing is called a "master shim". Since I got the locker used, I didn't know it was missing. It fits in between the bearing race and the seal ring and keeps the bearing from contacting the ring.

Honestly, it seems like a dumb design to me. If the spacer is required to be there, why not just make the seal ring take up the same space and avoid the extra piece?
Maybe once I get it and go to install it, it'll become more evident why it needs to be two pieces.
Click to expand...
The shim acts more like the roller bearings.
It's add one more surface in oil to separate the 2 pieces.
 
It's not completely plumbed in the pic below, but it is all finished now.

PSC.jpg


The bleeding process went very well and I didn't have any issues. I was a bit worried about that given some of the stuff I've read. I was worried about the steering feeling "sluggish" but although it does feel slightly "heavy", it seems plenty fast.

Full install video will be coming soon.

Also, I found out something interesting with my alternator.

I bought a 200amp alternator last year, but I noticed that a lot of times at idle it wasn't putting out full voltage. Sometimes less than 12v. Obviously since rock crawling involves a lot of time near idle, I was concerned.
I took it in yesterday, and I was told that there was nothing wrong with it, it's just that in order to produce that high of an output, something has to give, and that shows up in low output near idle.

Luckily they were willing to exchange it for one that has a slightly lower max output, but that is supposed to work a lot better at lower rpms.

I had never heard of that tradeoff before, so I'm curious to see how much better this one performs.
 
ktmoutfront said:
My 200 amp puts out 13v at idle. It has been in the Jimmy for 17 years. I let the truck run all day when wheeling.
Click to expand...
Could be a different design I guess. He did say that it has to do with the limitations of the alternator case. Maybe yours is a physically bigger alternator?

mrk5 said:
It is funny how you can learn about things and you're like "how have I not known this?!" I tend to look at idle output as much as max output for alternators.
Click to expand...
For sure. Still learning things all the time.
 
ashman said:
Could be a different design I guess. He did say that it has to do with the limitations of the alternator case. Maybe yours is a physically bigger alternator?


For sure. Still learning things all the time.
Click to expand...
That's the thing, the case size limits the total, what case do you have?
My 12SI is at the limit 135 a with good low rpm performance. It was on my Perkins diesel.
150a had low voltage at idle.
CS144 has a lot more potential with the bigger case
 
imiceman44 said:
That's the thing, the case size limits the total, what case do you have?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure. Stock alternator for a ls 6.0
ktmoutfront said:
Fit in the factory brackets. Was a custom wind by an old guy with a trashed shop full of old alternators, generators and starters. Mainly did antique stuff.
Click to expand...
a case of "they don't make them like they used to".
 
BoondocK5 said:
Like, say an ambulance?
Click to expand...
Yep, older units like early 90's had an automatic increase of the idle to make the alternator charge more to keep the battery charged. After idling for 30 minutes or so with overhead lights on you would come back to a car that wasn't running and lights that were barely moving. The LED style lights helped alot with that.
 
Output at idle, is commonly based on original design. The main thing is winding design, and air gap between the stator, and the rotor. Old Chrysler design had a huge gap between the stator and rotor. You could almost throw the rotor through the stator, which is what I would do if I owned a Dodge, throw it into the recycle bin. The CS 130 GM alts. (had a bad reputation of bearing failure, and diode failure), yet have a tiny air gap. They will charge 125 amps and 105-115 amps at idle! Great for crawling. The new ND "Hair pin" alternators, have an entirely new stator design, and also small air gap. The winding design have more "pulses" per revolution, so less electrical noise. They are way more efficient, so they use less horsepower, and put out less heat. If I needed more than 80 to 100 amps at idle, I would look into the new design Nippon Denso alt.
ashman said:
It's not completely plumbed in the pic below, but it is all finished now.

View attachment 440855


The bleeding process went very well and I didn't have any issues. I was a bit worried about that given some of the stuff I've read. I was worried about the steering feeling "sluggish" but although it does feel slightly "heavy", it seems plenty fast.

Full install video will be coming soon.

Also, I found out something interesting with my alternator.

I bought a 200amp alternator last year, but I noticed that a lot of times at idle it wasn't putting out full voltage. Sometimes less than 12v. Obviously since rock crawling involves a lot of time near idle, I was concerned.
I took it in yesterday, and I was told that there was nothing wrong with it, it's just that in order to produce that high of an output, something has to give, and that shows up in low output near idle.

Luckily they were willing to exchange it for one that has a slightly lower max output, but that is supposed to work a lot better at lower rpms.

I had never heard of that tradeoff before, so I'm curious to see how much better this one performs.
Click to expand...
Alternator stators, are kind of like camshafts. A lot of high output designs trade low rpm output, for high rpm max output. Now what we all need for crawling.
 
good info there. I'll see if I can find some identification on my alternator to see which type I have.
 
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