If you got your but down here to help maybe I could!! Oh wait...
CK5
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79 K5 Prerunner "Lucy"
- Thread starter sreidmx
- Start date
I think the cantilever shock idea is one who's time has come.
With slightly inboarded 63s out back your not gonna get full travel. You might get full static travel but your not gonna articulate.
Save those cad files
I might borrow them
With slightly inboarded 63s out back your not gonna get full travel. You might get full static travel but your not gonna articulate.
Save those cad files
I might borrow them
In the meantime I took the liberty to take some neat shots because I couldn't help myself.. View attachment 195176
View attachment 195177
View attachment 195178
This made me all giddyIt's got a few more inches to be completely bumped out but you get the Idea.
Love the cantilever arm.
And those have gotta be the most interesting wheels I have ever seen around here. They're downright invisible!
I think the cantilever shock idea is one who's time has come.
With slightly inboarded 63s out back your not gonna get full travel. You might get full static travel but your not gonna articulate.
Save those cad files
With a proper length pushrod I don't see why not?? Another reason I went spring under was for clearance, the cantilever to axle connection will be Heim joints so I don't see why that wouldn't provide enough misalignment. Plus this is a desert truck and the chances it will be tweaked out like that are much less than a trail rig.. I'll eat my words if I'm wrong though..
And just thinking about it, there are a ton of trucks a lot being Silverados that get cantilever kits with the long travel springs just like mine running a cantilever.. I'll find pics of said kit.
I had to pay extra or them they're the dark matter version..Love the cantilever arm.
And those have gotta be the most interesting wheels I have ever seen around here. They're downright invisible!
Here is a Silverado, this is a build on pirate in the expidition rigs section, called Hawaiifive0 it has all the details.
I got the idea from this and some of the raptor cantilever kits out there. It should be fine and I am not trying not to reinvent the wheel..
I agree! You should see that thing.. It inherited all my old parts so that means it's extra cool!
Martin, I definitely will when I have time to sit and put all the pictures in... Probably do it this week since I'm off work for a bit due to an injury... It's not nearly as exciting as Steve's truck... It's a bastard radius arm/3 link front end, 3/4 ton running gear, shackle flip and 4" block in the rear for a temporary time frame.... I'm still deciding on my rear end plans, but I'm leaning towards going with either a 3 or 4 link coilover design there as well.
And I don't see any reason why the cantilever would be limiting to travel myself either. At least it avoids the rate changes that tilting the shock would induce, taking some variables out of your shock tuning not to mention it'd be a pretty sharp angle to be able to get 16" out of a 12" shock if you were to direct mount. And you were able to push it through the travel, and your shock length worked out perfect... Could always change directions and go back to mezzanine though 
Cad files sent to plasma dude! Can't wait to build this thing!
The problem when you use a traction arm on the top link only(mezanine as you call it) is it puts the leaf spring under compression during load, which can still wrap the spring up, if you want to prevent spring wrap you need to put the spring under tension (like a cal-trac), or eliminate the leaf spring.
The cantilever mount is interesting, (although your virtual design is way better than the project image you showed, that one looks all out of wack on the travel clearances and lever angles). Your design has the link pivots at a much better angle for shock/axle travel and shaft clearances, nice job.
Have you thought about making two traction bar/trailing arms and mounting the shocks partway up the arms? That would not only give you more travel than 12" but it could also act as a traction bar so you don't wrap the springs or bind a u-joint. Although at that point you are only two links away from a 4 link and wouldn't need the leaf springs anymore.
Your cantilever arms will probably work fine for travel but you will still need to address spring wrap if you apply power under traction.
The cantilever mount is interesting, (although your virtual design is way better than the project image you showed, that one looks all out of wack on the travel clearances and lever angles). Your design has the link pivots at a much better angle for shock/axle travel and shaft clearances, nice job.
Have you thought about making two traction bar/trailing arms and mounting the shocks partway up the arms? That would not only give you more travel than 12" but it could also act as a traction bar so you don't wrap the springs or bind a u-joint. Although at that point you are only two links away from a 4 link and wouldn't need the leaf springs anymore.
Your cantilever arms will probably work fine for travel but you will still need to address spring wrap if you apply power under traction.
I can't speak for his axle wrap situation, but the tube cantilever was just a quick mock up to confirm the geometry I drew up for him would work. That is an interesting idea though, running a combo antiwrap/shock carrier... But I also agree that you're not far from a 4 link at that point...
The mock up was a proof of concept and is the same dimensions as the drawing. The link to the axle may actually end up longer than mocked up. Sorry I didn't make it fancy.. too much work.
As far as the spring in compression being an issue its not, Desert race leaf sprung trucks have been using triangulated upper links to solve the wrap issues for many many decades. The main issue is bending the leaf packs, which I don't really want to deal with. Its expensive and I would rather link it as you pointed out.
If I build a 2 link I would have to put the pivots lower on the axle than the springs, I don't know that I want to sacrifice that much more ground clearance, the pack hangs down 3 inches already. The mounts would be below the existing leaf spring eye mount, and you are right it would work better because the spring is then in tension. The other issue is space for the tire, I would be then outboard of the leaf and I wont be 100% sure it will clear the tires because I don't have the wheels and tires yet.
What I may to is build this cantilever so I can use the travel the springs are capable of and deal with the leaf spring wrap if it comes up. The two link is simple enough to add later if I need to do that.
Ultimately I will link this, so I don't want to get in to deep with the leaf springs when links might be a year down the road.
Btw these statements regarding the Desert trucks do not come from "reading the forums online" I'm working with Dave Turner, hes been doing this close to 25 years.. I know hes tried almost all the suggestions we can come up with. I trust his judgment when he tells me something works or does not. I don't want you guys to feel like I don't take your advice and criticism(I invite the insight) but I take the experience much more readily.
As far as the spring in compression being an issue its not, Desert race leaf sprung trucks have been using triangulated upper links to solve the wrap issues for many many decades. The main issue is bending the leaf packs, which I don't really want to deal with. Its expensive and I would rather link it as you pointed out.
If I build a 2 link I would have to put the pivots lower on the axle than the springs, I don't know that I want to sacrifice that much more ground clearance, the pack hangs down 3 inches already. The mounts would be below the existing leaf spring eye mount, and you are right it would work better because the spring is then in tension. The other issue is space for the tire, I would be then outboard of the leaf and I wont be 100% sure it will clear the tires because I don't have the wheels and tires yet.
What I may to is build this cantilever so I can use the travel the springs are capable of and deal with the leaf spring wrap if it comes up. The two link is simple enough to add later if I need to do that.
Ultimately I will link this, so I don't want to get in to deep with the leaf springs when links might be a year down the road.
Btw these statements regarding the Desert trucks do not come from "reading the forums online" I'm working with Dave Turner, hes been doing this close to 25 years.. I know hes tried almost all the suggestions we can come up with. I trust his judgment when he tells me something works or does not. I don't want you guys to feel like I don't take your advice and criticism(I invite the insight) but I take the experience much more readily.
I agree on the experience, and if it works on a desert truck it will probably work fine in the desert and on the sand. But if you try to apply power when you have traction with the spring under compression it might not work so well, so I think not being an issue is totally dependent on the application, maybe that is not an issue for you and how you will use the truck. You obviously are building a 2WD truck with somewhat long travel so you are planning on using a lot of speed and momentum on loose terrain and not a lot of high traction terrain. I don't even have wheel hop with no traction bar on the sand, but the moment I apply too much throttle on the road I feel like I am going to snap the rear u-joint off because of the wheel hop. Of course even more throttle can sometimes correct that because having almost no traction can be easier on parts that having some traction. ha ha I guess my point is, it's relatively easy to prevent wheel hop in the sand. I just don't use lift blocks or zero rates and I'm good, but my leaves aren't as soft as yours.
I do have a question for you, if you are going to link it in a year or so why go to all the trouble and expense of making cantilever mounts?
I do have a question for you, if you are going to link it in a year or so why go to all the trouble and expense of making cantilever mounts?
Remember it's spring under and the springs are Deavers and thick so it might not have as much wrap, plus I don't even come close to making the power your truck does, and the cantilever is cheap for me to build buying shocks is not. I am in this less than 150$ including all the steel the Heims and plasma cutting. And the reason to have it cut was more of a time saver than anything.
I agree with you on all points regarding traction. I am hoping my low gears help the wheels spin easier so I don't get traction.. I only have 31 spline axles and would prefer to not break them.. All this hold off is because when I do finally link it I'll stuff a 72 inch wms axle under it. This one is 65 inches. So I have to get a wider axle that's trussed and tabbed for links then the shocks and links themselves before any of that can happen.
I agree with you on all points regarding traction. I am hoping my low gears help the wheels spin easier so I don't get traction.. I only have 31 spline axles and would prefer to not break them.. All this hold off is because when I do finally link it I'll stuff a 72 inch wms axle under it. This one is 65 inches. So I have to get a wider axle that's trussed and tabbed for links then the shocks and links themselves before any of that can happen.
wetoolowdingbangow
1/2 ton status
Looks sick. Excellent job 
I can understand going wider for the desert runs, but how wide is your front end? If you make the rear wider than the front it can make it want to pass the front easier.
I think you are doing a great job by the way, the rig is looking cool. I want to see a video of it with some air under the tires.
I think you are doing a great job by the way, the rig is looking cool. I want to see a video of it with some air under the tires.
My front is 74 inches wide so its 89 wide at the outside of the tire up front and the rear is 80 to the outside of the tire.. I have a big difference, plus its mainly for the stability.. Sliding sideways at 70 feels better when the trucks as wide as it can be. I coulda made the front even wider but I couldnt bring myself to make it 94 inches.. thats what most trophy trucks are but they run 39 inch tires, and I didnt want to be dragging my diff in the rocks because I wanna run a 35 inch.
And thanks! dont worry I plan on getting some Gopros for the flight lessons.
